That’s not how you respond to lvl 10 trolls
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Yes please
I don’t support giving higher-rated players better gear, this rating gating supports carries and unfair games. They have a skill advantage and then get a gear advantage. Everyone should be able to obtain the same BiS gear so that once you put in time on a toon, it can be competitive. I fought Trill and Chanimal back to back the last season on my 207 ilvl mage. They were both 227. (Blizzcon champs with a 20 ilvl advantage… womp womp)
Do you think they need that advantage to beat me? Or do you think I should atleast have a fair chance? My toon was full conquest gear (I put in my time already), but only had broken the 1.4 barrier so far…
No quite, but it’s easy to fix IMO. Honor gear scales to 253 (ex.) in PvP only (can balance wherever they want in PvE, that’s the cool part of scaling), conquest gear scales to 259 (ex.) in PvP only. No 7 ranks, no 70 ilvl range from the beginning of honor gear to the top rank PvP gear. This would make alting viable, create fairly geared games given you do your work, make the game casual friendly cause even they can get conquest gear eventually and won’t be 229 ilvl vs 259 in random bgs since honor gear would be 253. That saves a 30 ilvl discrepency between a fully honor geared toon and a full conquest geared toon, this shouldn’t even be a thing.
These threads are being created to try to help Blizzard see that we don’t want to PvE at all if we don’t have to. Right now, there is so much quest-like stuff to do after you hit max level already (we are done leveling right?), yet the recommendation is for PvPers to PvE for gear after so much work did go into making PvP gear a thing. While no real end game fun stuff to keep you engaged. Yet they create tons of ranks of honor gear and time gate it so it’s not even as good as the PvE gear. (time gating issue again…)
Put some time in and focus on balancing PvP gear and classes a little. PvP should be on a moderately equal ground considering it is a test of skill, right now, it rewards geared zug zug.
I know, I am just hoping someone that actually cares to help will see and understand the points. ): Don’t worry, I will give up soon.
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This is something I could get behind. I like the upgrade system, but I think having 7 different levels of upgrading could be a bit much, especially to people wanting to play as alts.
I agree to a extent here. I think people who put in more time and effort to learn the game deserve better rewards, which is what the gear grind is in an MMORPG.
PvP has and never will be balanced, even if all the item levels were the same.
I don’t know if they do or not, I’ve never seen you play. I do understand where you are coming from, but in an MMORPG, gearing is apart of the skill that is needed.
Maybe this is just a different philosophy then. I personally like having to do different things and coming out of my comfort zone to earn and grind stuff, but I can see where plenty of PvP only players may not.
I think blizzard needs to make some polls about how players like to gear, and go from there.
Every time you balance something, something else will be the best. It’s a never ending cycle, and quite honestly, these forums are very harsh towards the devs that were doing that stuff constantly during legion.
Do not give up. If you want something to change, you have to express that.
All I suggest is also accept others opinions on the matter and have a nice civil discussion about it.
You are the first person on the Arena Forums so far that I have talked to that has been civil and brought good and fair points, and I thank you for that. 
Better reward do not need to impact player power at all. MoP, I had the same gear as Snutz when I fought him. Still one of my fondest memories, not that I could have a chance during a season like this.
But all ilvls eventually being the same would be a great start.
I was in the 1400 bracket, working on 1600 so I could finally get my 213 ilvl on my 4th alt. Def not a 3k player. Then trying to overcome a 20 Ilvl disadvantage is discouraging to say the least.
This is one place we differ, I don’t like “having” to do so many things. I don’t get tons of play time, I like PvP, I spend more time doing chores than what I actually enjoy in the game. Metrics look like I play quite a bit, but the fact is, that I am quite miserable. Mage tower is a great example of something you could do but didn’t have to. It was fun, if you could do it, you got a sick mog, if not you were not punished for it.
This is where balancing takes finesse, they don’t do semi-frequent tweaks to help, they leave thing OP or generally gut them so they aren’t even viable anymore. Rogues are a good example of that.
You have to have thick skin to PvP in general as it’s a very competitive area of the game. I didn’t play too much of Legion, but I know that by the time someone likes me makes it to the forums to cry for help, we are already broken.
I am not always rainbows and flowers either, I care about the game and sometimes my passion comes out harsh. Do I think some of the decisions that were made during this implementation of PvP gear were bad? Yes! Does that bother me yes! Are there lots of forums that outline the issues that are not being acknowledged? Yes! Was that other thread I linked you about PvP gear created in APRIL? Yes!
But, do I truly hope that many of these issues are addressed so myself and others can spend time playing the game and actually enjoying it, instead of crying on the forums. YES! And that is why I am here, but insanity is expecting different results and I don’t have much faith that me crying on here is going to get different results than anyone else doing it. All I can say is that I tried.
I have played this game on and off since vanilla. I have always loved the game and want nothing but the best for it, but it easy to lose focus in these forums as everyone is very passionate about their opinions, and the game that they have committed so much of their lives to. It’s hard caring so much and being ghosted by the ones who can do something with our insight. But, thank you also.
I remember dueling Ven monk v monk and killing him on his stream a few times.
Last one was bfa.
Those situations are a lot more rare (when I play alts) because of not being anywhere near as optimal geared or progressed through the other time consuming things.
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“Better rewards” in PVP should be unique titles, mounts, achieves, transmogs, enchants, etc. - not player power.
As per the “Gear grind”: the PVP gear system cannot just be a lazy carbon-copy of the PVE gear system. These game modes (i.e.: competitive [PVP] vs. cooperative [PVE]) are far too different to be treated w a similar gear system. What works for PVE doesn’t work for PVP, and vice versa; in fact, this is the underlying rationale for a separation of gear types and gear systems.
You make the same idiotic mistake as so many other ppl do - Ion included: you constantly refer back to PVE systems when discussing PVP systems.
Gear %advantage != skill %advantage.
Of course, what you’re saying here is that gearing takes skill. On the surface, and taken at face-value as a sort of general truism where RPGs are concerned, this is a reasonable statement; however, when we consider the actual state of the game and the various game systems, outside of the far too generalized and idyllic conditions of theoretical musings, we run into real problems.
For example: gear %advantage being a far too important factor in the current PVP systems; this, coupled w other factors (read: imbalances), is leading to an increasing power gap, where the best, most skilful players are rewarded w %advantages they don’t need, which is antithetical to competitive game-play. Note that this also makes it increasingly difficult for those who were not so lucky/skilled, etc., bc they’re playing at an ever-greater %disadvantage.
As true as this maybe, that is no excuse to not make efforts to curb excessive %advantages in a competitive aspect of the game. The current systems are quite antithetical to the notion of a fair competition where skill is, ideally, the most decisive factor in determining a win.
Rating gated player power doesn’t belong in PVP. Gear gating is a PVE concept, bc - in PVE - gear is the reward. Gear is why you swing your axe at the loot piñatas every week. The loot piñatas are gates. Gear gating makes sense in PVE. The stratification of player power that results from this is entirely natural to PVE. At any rate, PVE is a cooperative aspect of the game, and, so, if anyone improves, the team/party/raid, etc., improves as a whole against static, pre-scripted loot piñatas. That’s what ppl expect in an RPG: the best PVE gear drops from the most difficult loot piñatas.
PVP is a whole other animal. The stratification of player power via the implementation of rating gates is flat-out unacceptable. PVP gear progression, unlike PVE gear progression, must needs be a (relatively) constant progression that is open to everyone and leads to equalization (read: gear % balance) over the course of a season, insofar as they’re willing to put in the requisite time to farm a needed currency. Rating gates maintain imbalance; they disrupt the much needed (relatively) constant progression which is central to the very idea of a fair competition based on skill, not %advantages via all manner of technical imbalances.
In PVP, gear is not the ultimate reward. The ultimate reward - for the HC PVP players, in a properly functioning PVP system, is the rating and position on a public ladder - and the bragging rights that go along with that. Gear is a secondary matter - it is a secondary reward system for those ppl who will NEVER get beyond low rating (whether by skill or by choice) but are content w farming a currency and enjoying non-rated/low rated content; PVP gear progression is something that should occur as a matter of course - not as an end, in and of itself. The proper stratification of PVP players is based on rating - ideally as a measure of player skill, and should have nothing to do with player power.
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Working on my second shaman now
mEaNiNgFuL cHoIcE
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The worst part about this is when you have to choose between friends.
That makes a video game’s MeaNinGfULLChoICE unfun, unwarranted, and a real reason to quit.
I have a few PvE friends who do 20+ mythic keys, I’d love to join them, but I’m not the right covenant, not the right legendary, and I do not choose my best PvE items from the vault because I play with some 2100+ arena friends as well.
Shadowlands has successfully alienated me from playing content with my friends because I cannot min/max more than one aspect of the game.
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yeah they did that in bfa
Here’s part of the job description
https://imgur.com/0xzKsO3