in vanilla we didnt have people optimizing the game like we do today and i think that CHANGES are in fact what keeps the spirit of vanilla alive, everyone having 10k+ gold, premades every single bg, people soloing 60 raid trash, isnt in the spirit of vanilla if u ask me
ofc u can use anecdotal evidence of “in vanilla i specifically remember bots flying around zg boosting me and also i played on every server and every bg was a preamde” but we all know that isnt true lol
The problem is, every time blizzard tries fixing anything, it backfires way too often. Look at the state of AV.
Worse, it’s very important for wow classic to bring players back from alternative servers into the blizzard ecosystem, doing too many changes just places people back to the more authentic alternative servers.
They need to make the game appealing to the people who like vanilla. If people don’t like vanilla, it doesn’t matter because they’re already a part of the ecosystem via another blizzard game/retail. If they lose classic players, they’re out of the ecosystem.
hot take, but i think if they implemented changes to how many people can premade in a bg, etc. the game would overall improve and people would cry and cry and cry but i can almost promise overall the experience owuld be better. this feels nothing at all like vanilla and i dont think we should continue lying to ourselves and take this “artistic” (if u know what im saying) #nochanges stance. its like the equivalent of being a flat earther at this point
It’s very easy to lose sight of how diverse the playerbase of wow classic is. Things that seem like they’re good for everyone, can actually be really shortsighted and have severe impacts on others.
For example, let’s say we “remove premades”, now people who enjoy crafting and selling free action potions, grenades, farming magic dust, so on might not enjoy the game as much, as there’s much more of them being made than consumed.
There’s many more examples, but overall any action blizzard directly “changes”, forces a meta shift, which always completely ruins somebody’s plans, hurts somebody, helps somebody, and sometimes offers new things that are exploited and hurt the game even more.
It’s easy to say premades are bad, because they are, they give an unfair advantage to people in high positions and segregate casual players from elite players. That’s why I liked phase 2, you could fight alongside the elite even if you were casual, in this meta you can’t.
That said, I am glad they are careful about what changes they do. I am not happy about the AV change, but it could be much much worse really quickly if they did all the changes players suggested via hive mind.
if anything, having smaller premades would be a bigger insentive for people to buy consumes to carry the other 5-10 people harder imo
all im saying is… the spirit of classic didnt rely on mages being able to aoe farm 60 raids and premades premading… its much bigger than that and removing parts of the game that def arent the spirit of classic wouldnt be bad
to say #nochanges = permanent problems in the game that just make the game bad
its just a low iq take
Yeah they really should consider fixing some blatent things, i don’t think clearing all ZG trash in one pull by exploiting pathing was quite intended. Problem is it’s easier to say than to actually do. A shortsighted fix can just make the game feel less authentic, and people will leave to alternative servers.
Well, lets look at it like this, WHAT is the spirit of classic? The world, the people, the unknown? Or is it something completely different? This is the thing about “hindsight”, in this case, since the players know better, they did something completely different and DESTROYED what was already amazing and great to begin with, for hollowed and short victories.
Blizzard should have defiantly did changes, but they wanted to “appease” the pserver crowed. But they are quitting in droves so at this point, it’s silly to not change something when the game is clearly a mess do to the content being known and exploitable vs the unknown. And the unknown has ALWAYS been the fun part of play ANY game vs knowing better.
completely agree.
if you add changes whats the point of this game then? And where does the buck stop? If you make a case for one change, why not others too? All you advertise for here is a weird private server version of wow vanilla that you can find by googling servers that offer exactly that.
Is vanilla perfect? By god no and it never was. It is what it is. People asking for changes do not understand the implication that one change brings with it.
Just look at layering and how they promised not to use it past the initial launch. You can not trust this company to uphold their promises and opening the door for changes is terrible, for this version of WoW as well as the next ones that come after. Because you can not control what they change and wether the change is something that is actually beneficial to the game.
Could the honor system be revamped to make it not so absolutely atrocious? Yes probably. But you do not know what else you get by asking for this. The devil you know…
Why is people being able to solo raid trash so surprising?
People were able to 1-2 man farm Naxx trash for certain trash drops like Harbringer of Doom and Misplaced Servo Arm. That’s been a thing since Vanilla.
So what you mean to say is that the community is the reason that the “spirit of vanilla” isn’t alive. That IS NOT blizzard’s fault, that is our fault.
I disagree with the premise… #nochanges was never right, and it certainly didn’t become right over time.
Whos soloing 60 raid trash???
This is the best comment I’ve ever seen.
You know that these developers designed retail WoW, right? Which means most of them probably think retail is better than Classic in every way. And if these developers decide to “improve” Classic, their ideas will most likely be to make it more and more like retail. Which would defeat the entire reason many of us asked for Classic in the first place.
There remains a very good reason for #nochanges, even though it comes with its share of warts that we have to live with.
The whole reason we even play this game now is because retail is such a mess that they kept bleeding subs for years, which obviously means they are doing smth that is not taking the game in the right direction.
Vanilla Pserver offered the game people used to love and wanted to experience all over again.
If you bring back said vanilla version but allow changes again you will not provide what people are obviously craving for. A game untouched by the changes made to the current version. All you get is another (pserver esque) version of vanilla that again does not fill the demand many players were obviously looking for.
This is not even a carbon copy of vanilla thanks to the modern client that got retro-engineered and it has a bunch of changes in it too that never were in vanilla. It actually does feel like a Pserver and plenty of changes they made so far are already detrimental to the game. And that is with a very conservative application on changes due to the #no changes nature.
I do not even wanna imagine if they decided to screw the #no changes mentality altogether and just add changes as they saw fit to “improve” the game. Specially by this dev. team.
It would have been an utter mess.
I think what people need to accept is that the game is the game. Play it, good luck and have fun. Don’t come on and consistently complain about it.
Who’s version of ‘‘the spirit’’ becomes the default? Because I most certainly participated in premades helping out multiple people grinding out rank 14. Who’s experience is right?
And when everyone had a different experience and a different history and different levels of nostalgia the only real way to give the best experience for all is to leave it as unchanged as possible.
The game has flaws…that is entirely the point though. Asking to ‘‘fix’’ the flaws is goes against what Classic was supposed to show us…that ‘‘we thought we did, but we really didn’t.’’ And for many it really seems like they didn’t want this…but instead of just accepting that a 15 year old game might not be for them they try to ruin it for the people who ‘‘thought they did and actually did.’’
It would have been a mess, but that’s mostly because Blizzard is, I think, currently incapable of developing games based on WoW’s old design princibles.
Maybe “no changes” is the best they can manage, but it is far from ideal. An ideal situation would be an OSRS-style reset of the game, with fine tuning in accordance to new metas/discoveries and additional content (and by that I mean ADDITIONAL. As in, not meant to substitute the old content in any way. You get more things to do, but everything else stays relevant and necessary for progression)
im not mad at people participating in premades, im mad that the person who wants to enjoy a bg for old times sake is more than likely to queue into a premade than not and the games been out for almost a year