Why New Players Don't Become PVPers and Why Casuals Stop

I believe that wow PVP is the most balanced and the systems used to get gear are the best they have been since launch. With how easy it is to get gear for PVP, the scene is still stagnate and struggles to entice new players and retain casual PVPers. I believe that this isn’t caused by the PVP gameplay itself, rather by a number of factors surrounding PVP that have caused serious problems for the game.

  • Low Level BGs and low honor level queues

Players first introduction to PVP is in the mess that is low level PVP, where games have massive queue times, and revolve around overgeared toons one shotting anyone else who tries to play. This is a terrible introduction to PVP and will turn most new players away. This system should be addressed in several ways.

First, Blizzard should get rid of low honor level queues outright. There are not enough players left to support this system. Second, low level BGs should be reworked entirely. Low level BGs should queue everyone from level 20 up to level 70 in the same lobby. I chose level 20 as this is the first level that war mode is unlocked and is the level I believe most classes at least have their baseline kit. Their stats should be completely normalized like it was in legion, where gear and level does not matter at all and everyone has the exact same stats. This means that the only disadvantage a low level player will have is what abilities they have unlocked.

This means that a low level player would at least have a a chance to fight against higher level players and could potentially outplay them if they play well. Next, I would also give substantially more exp in PVP than is given now, to make battlegrounds a more viable way to level up if a new player enjoys it. The level 71-79 BG bracket should have a more forgiving minimum item level cap as well to offset the effects of high geared players.

  • Premades Scare off new and casual players

Premades make casual battlegrounds unenjoyable to queue. No one enjoys being stomped and this often turns into the player just AFKing out and doing something else instead of PVPing. And we have seen the effects of premades in classic PVP as well, where it has effectively killed off casual PVP in those games. The cycle goes: Premades stomp casuals until they stop PVPing, premades get longer queues and are forced against other premades, and then quit after they start getting stomped by better premades. Retail has not reached this stage yet, but this tends to be what happens if you let premades go around unchallenged.

Some may argue that casuals should just join premades if they don’t want to get stomped, but even that doesn’t address the problem. Stomping people in premades is just as boring as getting stomped once the novelty wares off and it takes a very specific type of person to enjoy this gameplay. You aren’t really playing the objective if you play in a premade vs a pug, you just end up graveyard camping the enemy team, spamming your PVE rotation on them because you likely outgear them.

The clear solution to this problem is to only allow premades to face off against other premades. Allow for players to bring a raid team into random battlegrounds, but ensure that they are always paired with another premade of equal size to ensure fair matches. If you duo queue in randoms, there should be a duo queue on the enemy team. If you are in a 5 man in a random BG, you should face off against a premade. If you bring 10 people, you should face a team with a 10 person premade. For epic BGs, blizzard needs to patch queue syncing and penalize anyone who attempts to do so as cheating. Allowing random BGs to be a place where casuals can play without getting stomped every other game will help to revive the PVP community.

  • Casual Class Balance

Blizzard typically balances the game around competitive PVP. Namely arena. However, I believe that this approach is short sighted and drives casual players away from the game. You often hear the common mantra of “game isn’t balanced around 1v1” when a casual player complains about losing to another class in a duel. However, this approach leads to casuals quitting if they play classes that do not fare well in solo PVP or if a class is genuinely overpowered in casual PVP situations.

I believe one of the biggest offenders historically have been hunters, whose kit is extremely powerful in battlegrounds. No one enjoys being one shot by a class that is balanced around being trained in a small scale arena game. This isn’t a problem that applies to me specifically, because I play classes that tend to do well vs hunters, but it is an extremely common sentiment I have heard from people trying to play casually. To address this, blizzard should take the time to look at casual BG, casual 1v1, and world PVP balance and make a few changes with these modes in mind. If something is completely dominating in casual PVP, it should be toned down a bit. They should not necessarily make casual PVP the primary thing they balance around, but they should at least keep an eye on it to make sure that nothing gets out of hand.

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Low effort ai

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This is all I needed to see. The shark has been jumped, the plot lost, and your mother doused in elderberries.

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Its not perfect, but it is more balanced than it has been in a very long time. Almost every spec is viable in both arena and BG blitz and the strongest specs aren’t oppressively strong, in competitive PVP at least.

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Scare off? No, I simply quit when that happens due to it being an unfair fight, despite what some pvp players would have you believe.

I quit doing most pvp because I am required to maintain 2 sets of armor. When everything was 1 set of armor being used in both pve & pvp it was a lot better IMO

Lastly, the main reason I retired was the multiple currencies needed to pvp in order to do the above paragraph.

Screw all that

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Nah. WoW PvP has sucked since WotLK at least. Arenas were cool when they came out but completely ruined it. Peak PvP was before they removed the weekly honor rankings. It will never get back to that.

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It is. Nobody enjoys being stuck in CC and dying without any indication of how to avoid it.

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Any established mmo ive played has a hill to climb at first. Players these days hate those hills and avoid them at all costs. Gaming culture has changed over the years and i dont think this is an easy fix like most people think. Some of the reasons we play the game are actually the reasons people dont play it lol tis a pickle.

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This same problem has killed classic and SOD PVP outright. Personally, I quit SOD when premades overran casual BGs. Classic also has had a problem with premades overrunning BGs when I played it.

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The big issues is the skill gap between players and the amount of information you’re expected to know.

A brand new player will most likely be thrown against people who have been doing PvP for most of their WoW career, and they don’t really have a chance to learn or gain skill against someone who is going to stomp them effortlessly. They should be able to go against players their own skill level and I doubt many new pvpers exist these days that last beyond getting absolutely obliterated every game.

Couple that with how much information they need to know about class match ups and the like. They’re expected to know what their class is capable of (not necessarily bad) but also what every class in the game is capable of. It can be very overwhelming for new players. It’s just not a casual friendly environment.

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Random Epic BGs should be the place where new players can safely learn how to PVP. Large BG size can offset a new player doing badly and gives them a lot more cover for mistakes given that there will likely be enough healers to ensure they don’t drop dead instantly. However, this is not the case because premades ruin those and turn them into one sided stomps. You in theory don’t really need to know a lot to PVP at a casual level as long as you know what your class abilities do. You won’t perform at a high level, but you might be able to get some kills on some weakened enemies. But in practice, there is no place for casuals to PVP because premades have ruined them. There is simply no place for casual players to learn how to PVP because of premades.

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[Why New Players Don’t Become PVPers and Why Casuals Stop]

  • because “PvP” in this particular game is a joke.
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Most people don’t really care about random battlegrounds, when it comes to PvP discussion the majority of it is almost always 2v2, 3v3, or any other form of ranked pvp. Random BGs are a joke.

Naw the community ate it. The honor per hour crew has taken all the fun out of it. I quit bc only ab would pop. Remember when they changed ab? Alliance threw every single game for a while for faster honor. They have a giant culture problem over in classic as far as pvp goes.

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Most people dedicated enough to regularly post in the community don’t, but the casual PVPers absolutely do, and they are basically unplayable solo at the moment with how bad the premade problem is. It has gotten to the point where I play blitz games for casual matches because they are easier than dealing with a premade, even if I am only in honor gear.

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hiiii reason is steep learning curve and nobody wants to play with somebody worse same with pve

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Because WoW’s PvP is kinda bad and most other MMOs have better PvP. What WoW do have is easily the best PvE available in any MMO on the market right now.

Which is why people play it for the PvE and not the PvP. WoW’s PvP is a thing you engage with for transmog and just for casual fun of bonking other players over the head with whatever flavour of bonk you opt for.

This description fits Legion and older xpacs - but it started failing harder and harder as blizz’s PvP design worsened and player population did a nosedive. While you can still ‘mess around’ in epic BGs if you want to try it, blizz’s high burst/AoE/CC ridden design is not going to be a fun way to learn to play, with or without premades. Ironically the way to find some fun on a noob, undergeared alt is to play alongside a premade. lol

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wow pvp is by far the most unbalanced portion of WoW and always has been blizzard dosent know hwo to fairly balance anything. and even when they manage to get it tolerable so everyone can join in and not immediately get stomped they ruin it a month later or they never use that same formula again and we end up back with league of legends tier unbalance.

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Gearing is more deterministic in pvp than pve, thus encouraging players to use the PvP sets in PvE. Think that was back in shadowlands? It has been a hot minute since i recall reading about that change tho

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