Why mutilate is bad for PVP as rogue

WoW Classic Season of Discovery
1

I know everyone is salivating at mutilate for PVP but it’s not that great because it will ruin your stun lock. Let’s see the numbers…

Energy costs of spells:

  • Cheap shot = 40 energy with dirty deeds
  • Kidney shot = 25 energy
  • Mutilate = 40 energy
  • Hemo = 35 energy

Energy left after removing stuns from rotation before blind = 135 total energy
Calc = 120 + energy tick - cheap shot - kidney shot = 75 energy
Then you get 3 energy ticks in kidney for 60 more energy
Total usable energy = 135 energy

Rotations:
Hemo
Cheap>hemo>hemo>kidney>hemo>blind>restealth>cheap>5 point evis
Muti
Cheap>muti>waiting…>kidney>muti>waiting…>blind>resealth>cheap>5 point evis

Hemo
135-35-35-35=30 just enough for blind

Muti
135-40-40=55 (blind is 30)

This is how stun lock works in P2. I don’t care about your OPINIONs.

As you can see, hemo is better and uses energy PERFECTLY.

Video proof this rotation works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsWEFpJRcUQ

Hemo will do slightly more damage because it’s autos do more damage otherwise they will be very similar but HEMO rogues have better stealth and stronger evis.

Edit:

Explained better now

4 Likes
2

Not reading your wall of text but Daggers was better in Era and that was at 60 energy backstabs.

6 Likes
3

You can only mutilate 2x in a full stun lock while I can hemo 3x and evis.

:person_shrugging:

Once again the numbers matter.

You only get so much energy in a stun lock. It only lasts so long.

1 Like
4

Mutilate rewards two combo points

Which reduces the point to spam two hemos

4 Likes
5

You don’t get it.

Combo points aren’t the problem. Energy is. You only get so much energy during a stun lock.

The numbers are black and white.

Hemo uses less energy so it stun locks effectively while mutilate uses a little too much energy so it can’t stun lock as well.

Combo points are not the problem.

Energy is always the issue with dagger spec which is why you needed vigor and T1 to make dagger good.

You don’t have vigor or T1 so even with the energy reduction dagger sucks.

6

If only there was a consumable that gave extra energy

9 Likes
7

Have fun using tea every stun lock then.

I’m sure that won’t get old or anything.

Also even with Tea hemo can likely do more because IT COST LESS ENERGY.

8

OP has had nothing but bad takes on rogues and pvp non stop.

11 Likes
9

So you don’t follow the basic math I’ve provided is what you are saying.

10

I agree, i never pvped on a rogue at a high level but i have competed against them and during the height of mutilate it was really the inferior rogue spec, very niche, you had to be reckful levels of good to make it work (R.I.P reckful).

I think rogue power is in very high sustained dmg and control. You cant beat that.

11

If you play initiative you will get 3 combo points from cheap shot 75% of the time and will only need to mutilate once.

Also I’ll probably be going quick draw for a 25energy combo point builder for those times I’m awkwardly stuck at 4 points. Or even just a 4 point kidney will probably be fine considering how bursty the game is.

Mutilate damage right now is VERY good. I only have scouts blade and it smokes my sword dps with talwar (only tested while questing / short fight, so bursty).

12

Good thing the issue is ENERGY and not COMBO POINTS.

Learn to read.

13

sips thistle tea

2 Likes
14

Your example is two mutilates. One mutilate is less energy than two.

15

Mutilate + quick draw = 65 energy
Two hemos = 70 energy

3 Likes
16

YOu have to use it every fight.

I hope you have big bags. LOL

You don’t seem to understand the problem. You can do less damaging attacks with mutilate vs hemo in a stun lock.

The only thing you can do to fix it is get more energy.

And even if you do that, hemo can also do that and do more damaging attacks for the same energy.

17

Your example with hemo is 135 energy to get off a full kidney.

With mut dirty deeds and initiative you can get kidney off with 105 energy.

Thats 30 energy less? I don’t understand

18

Yeah you don’t understand. You get 140 energy in a cheap shot opener.

The skill that spends this 140 energy the best is the best skill.

That skill is hemo. You can hemo 2x for 170+ damage each time. With mutilate you can only mutilate 1 time and then you have to wait for cheap shot to end then kidney.

Also in kidney shot you can only mutilate 1 time and you can’t even evis.

Meanwhile I can hemo 1 time in kidney and eviis for the same energy.

Therefore hemo does more damage in a full stun lock than mutilate.

Even with tea I’m positive hemo will do more damage in a full stun lock.

A full stun lock is exactly 9 seconds. Not more, not less.

19

That’s because your math doesn’t check out.

With Hemo:
140 - Cheap Shot - Hemo - Hemo - Kidney = 140 - 40 - 35 - 35 - 25 = 5 energy

With Mutilate:
140 - Cheap Shot - Mutilate - Kidney = 140 - 40 - 40 - 25 = 35 energy.

Mutilate does more damage*, generate more combo points, and is cheaper.

*Mutilate benefits from Opportunity, even when you are not behind you target. Causing it to deal 144% weapon damage with both weapons on a poisoned target. Which greatly outdoes Hemo’s damage even with a slow 1h weapon.

5 Likes
20

So hem starts the kidney with 5 energy, and mut starts the kidney with 35 energy.

Say you get another two ticks in the kidney that’s another 40 energy. Enough for one hemo?

Or you could get a mut and two point evis/env?