I don’t often pug anymore, but I used to a lot and I know for a fact- many pug groups are better than guild groups. The bad pug groups are terrible and easier to get into, which is why a lot of ppl have probably experienced bad pugs- as opposed to the high end quality pug groups who vet their invites. I got my week 1 Azshara aotc with a pug group. I think people need to stop pooping on the term pug- because there’s definitely a lot of bad guilds too.
in our guild. we call them native raiders.
Because they look like this.
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Ya I’ve had the bad guild groups before. And unlike Pugs, you can’t just leave it and quit it.
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Before cross realm, pug groups used to matter. You wanted to make a good name for yourself on the server, so most people pugging actually did research and tried.
On top of that, pug groups all used to use voice chat. “No vent, no loot” was the pug phrase back in the day. Now, pug groups just disband at Heroic Mekkatorque rather than get people in voice chat.
It’s safe to say the quality of pug groups has gone way down over the years.
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I pug raids normally. I’ve lead pug raids. In all of them I’ve had to explain the fights because nobody knew them.
I’ve been in groups where pugs die to obvious mechanics like right in front of their face. Half the group dies to it. And like the usual the half just leaves the group and ends the content for everyone.
The other day I was in a group whose advertisement was “Know fights”. Nobody joined.
Absolutely this ^
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+1 just because I have to, as a pug owner myself.
Because they are baddies below us. Learn the chain of the animal kingdom for WoW.
You can though.
Think they mean you can’t leave without the drama. Plus usually it sucks leaving friends high and dry in a guild.
On a side note I like it when people use the word baddies or other such phrases. For me, it places a post it note on their forehead that reminds me they aren’t so great.
when things go bad, everyone else to blame except themselves and no accountability so everyone else we pug with and it goes badly= baddies.
I used to love doing PuG raids. Our guild hosted them every weekend in Wrath (on alts etc.) It was a great way to recruit people too.
We had some “regular” puggers as well. Excellent players. We tried to recruit them but some were in friends and family guilds and didn’t want to leave their people. Understandable, so they just played with our team on a regular basis to be able to raid. We made some good friends.
Our runs were very fair and very fun. My husband is the best raid leader I’ve ever seen. Truly. Fair, patient, knowledgeable. People always had fun in our PuGs. We only had to kick a few people over that time, that were truly clueless or afk all the time etc. looking to get a free carry. We even worked with a few “bads” to try to help them if they were willing to learn and didn’t hold up progress (cuz that isn’t fair to the rest of the group).
I really miss those weekend PuGs. Since then though, it seems like one mistake or heaven forbid one wipe, and people are ready to bail.
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Dude this. My expectation with pugs is zero now.
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It’s sad really. Learning a new boss was always fun for me. I didn’t mind wiping as long as we were learning/making progress.
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Convenience became more accessible and patience took a nosedive.
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But that’s why you vet them. It’s not like (good) guilds invite rando’s and then bring them to raid. You have to set requirements (IL 415 and 55 neck was the bar for week 1 normal EP in my guild). A lot of pug leaders only care about AotC. That’s not how you vet a player (and the only AotC that matters is week 1 AotC which is why I get it every time). What matters are WarcraftLogs %'s- purple/orange only.
I can offer a bit of a different perspective on this, as someone who doesn’t join pug raids but occasionally needs to pug players for one of my raid teams.
I raid with a group of friends that i’ve had for a long time on this game, we’re from an RP server so recruiting is scarce and if we’re down one or two people we need to pug which is fine. It gives us the ability to supplement our roster if need be.
The issue that we often run into with pugs isn’t one of ability but of attitude and respect.
Last night, our first night of heroic in Eternal Palace, we pug a decent sized group and everything goes awesome on the first boss (one wipe, i was very proud) and move onto behemoth. On that second boss it took us a couple pulls to down but after the second one this guy starts complaining and trying to dictate what changes should be made to up our chances including kicking people from our guild from the raid.
At first we just ignore it and move on but then he starts doing it during the pull. Complaining and demanding that we make certain changes. i told him to F*** off and we removed him afterwards
It’s interactions like that that make people less inclined to invite pugs, even if a majority are fine. It’s just easier to not have to deal with these entitled and frankly rude players.
aw so cute ![:star_struck:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/star_struck.png?v=6" ":star_struck:")
People call pug groups worse because on average they are worse. They’re not as organized or coordinated. Raid leaders often just want a carry and never say a word or give any direction (I’ve seen this a lot).
It just is what it is.
A pug group that forms a persistent set of members is really operating closer to what a guild would do and isn’t how most pugs are built.
Most pugs are Hey let’s go kill this really hard thing that drops nice loot A) without a plan B) without a leader C) without enough gear to do so and D) with no communication!!!
Yeah OK 
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