Summon commandos
We’re talking about Horde dispelling CC from CC’d elites, not removing CC from yourself. So for example I sheep the commander guarding the flag → cap flag → Horde comes by to backcap, dispels CC from commander → the player and commander bash my face in together → Horde backcaps.
1 Like
Yes. All of which the alliance can also do. Where is your issue with this?
If you read the thread, the original context is that the Horde commanders have way more HP than their Alliance counterparts, which is what necessitates the CC in the first place because otherwise you’re spending years killing them. Horde can just kill the Alliance commanders since they’re only a little bit more tough than any other guard NPC. If Alliance come to backcap, Horde can devote their full efforts to defense without worrying about the CC’d commander getting its CC broken and fouling everything up.
7 Likes
not only are there more Horde NPCs the Alliance has to Cleave Through, but Horde Guards are Tougher than Alliance Guards and Horde Commanders are Tougher than Alliance Commanders, meaning Alliance has a huge Disadvantage in that they actually need to CC while the Horde can just Burst DPS their way through the battleground due to both having better access to Safe Territory and the Alliance having Fewer NPCs and Weaker NPCs. meaning alliance has to play with a Savant Brain to overcome a disadvantage the horde doesn’t need to even deal with.
2 Likes
" * Commanders Karl and Louis Philips now have an equal amount of health.
-
Commanders Duffy and Malgor now have the same health."
Nov 22nd hotfix notes, they fixed those NPCS. they did not fix Ivus and Frostlord dmg being different. Alliance NPCs just seem weaker in general and have poor placement compared to the horde. Horde base is WAY easier to defend given the bridge knockbacks can be used on either side.
Alliance also has AFK spots to hide in where they don’t show on the map, so there’s often at least 3 people AFKing there. At least some people in mines messing around, and trying to get into the Frostwolf zone as Alliance is awful whereas on my Horde I can get into Dun Baldar bunkers easy going into the back.
Not to mention Horde get to Stonehearth bunker before Alliance can get anywhere near Iceblood. They start further into the map, advantage after advantage to the horde here and no fix.
5 Likes
Pretty sure they hotfixed the health discrepancies like a week ago. The map is biased in many ways, but that is not one of them.
My guild does just fine burning down the commanders. You should be leaving a force to defend the towers anyways, so they need something to do. Just kill them. In less than a minute you no longer have to worry about them.
Horde have a huge advantage when it comes rushing on this map. But its not killing the commanders that is causing losses. It people not being fast enough to get on points thats the issue. An extra 5 or 10 people pushing to the horde base doesn’t matter if noone actually makes a move towards the towers.
1 Like
That’s by far my preference but most groups have little interest. Most games it’s just me and 2-3 other players defending IBGY and IBT (TP usually gets enough defense for some reason) with nobody to tank the commanders long enough to kill them.
The reason the Alliance loses AV so much is because you stupidly rush for Iceblood Graveyard instead of trying to stop the Horde rush. Alliance can’t win the race in AV. This was evident even in modern AV with the sinful atrocity of Horde’s cave being pushed all the way to the bottom of the map!
Seriously Blizz! Relocate the Horde entrance cave in modern AV to the Rock of Durotan where it belongs!
Alliance, stop rushing for Iceblood Graveyard! Charge into the bunkers and stop the bunker captures! Aim for the long game! It’s vastly more rewarding than the short game!
CC is fine as long as no one - and I mean absolutely no one - comes and hits the CC’d NPC. lol
I’ve played many games where we killed all the NPCs. As folks mentioned it takes a proper number of tanks and healers and decent DPS and PvE-related coordination…
Assuming both teams want to ‘rush,’ it’s all about the PvE coordination and, after that, base tower/bunker defense and backcapping…
Or, maybe, it’s the horde mercenaries afking at the ally base and reporting as afk other players.
Not something I’ve been told - it’s something I had the misfortune to experience.
Right. CC is a stop-gap measure to deal with the fact that horde commanders have ten times as much HP, and it’s a bad stop-gap, because CC breaks on everything, including being cleansed by a horde player. It’s far harder to guard a flag when you’re walking on eggshells around a broken NPC.
1 Like
Ive noticed bugs where it will list tanks as dps on the list. Not always the case but this was within the last week.
It is a bit more than that, but lack of tanks is definitely one of the problems.
For example last night I saw Alliance players activity sabotaging the offense by dragging commanders and LTs together, death Knights refusing to enslave the abominations, capturing towers and GYs only to abandon them as soon as they saw a Horde player in the distance.
It was rather troubling to watch. In several cases the Alliance had the lead and would have otherwise won.
If only Paladins could be tanks. That would be ridiculous.
1 Like
Comparing two individual locations may say something, but you need to do an analysis of everything from start to finish.
The npc health difference may be balanced later on by how many elites horde has to kill in DB. Commander Morty doesn’t go down fast.
Alliance doesn’t make the effort to kill those commanders as a group. Someone will leash a tower commander and another person will cap. This is especially true for IBT. I spent a lot of time solo guarding IBT while leveling a bear and I cant count on 1 hand the number of times alliance initially had more than 2-3 people attempt to take the tower. It was very easy for me to delay long enough until the tower commander came back.
Horde has a pretty big map advantage. SH bunker is far away from everything else. This, coupled with how far north the horde starting point is make it impossible for alliance to defend. Their only real option is to defend that long narrow path from SHB to SGY. It’s a really good defensive path, especially since the road around has a ton of nocs, but it’s unnatural for alliance to defend the entire length because it brings them far away from the GY flag and we’ve all been yelled at for the better part of 15 years to fight on the flag. The horde chokeat IBGY doesnt require them to stray far from the flag. think SHB should swap positions with Balinda’s garrison. That would make for a more even layout, but it would remove the current natural choke for the path up the hill by balinda which is much wider.
All that being said, the map doesn’t give alliance great defensive spots until the DB bridge. Once horde get to SH GY they have the high ground against any alliance coming from the north. Additionally, they have numerous great high points to take SP GY from all sides. By the time alliance gets to the bridge, it’s too late for alliance to break a turtle because hirde can easily get lok, but alliance would have no chance of sending the druids through for ivus. Horde has natural defensive positions both at FW village and at IB GY.
I would personally put IW on level ground so attackers cant use it as a good defensive point, but defenders are denied the same advantage. As it stands, once horde get to SH GY, it’s almost impossible for an alliance push the get through the narrow choke to take the area back. On the other side, there is no attacker favored choke for horde to fight through to take back IB GY.
2 Likes
No tanks? I’ve been seeing quite the influx of guardian druids in there, holding the tide of Horde back with like 3 tanks and 1 healer. Maybe 2. So its roughly 5 VS 25-30 Horde and making it happen.
huh huh… for the first time the alliance is crying like little girls this in BG’s, 
we have to celebrate it as demon hunter.
Thanks to me…
Let’s just take it out our heads that Horde is better.
They aren’t.
AV is one-sided that gives Horde huge advantages over Alliance via terrain and NPCs.
The fact that Horde are already in Stonehearth bunker and at Korrak before Alliance are even in the “middle” is bad enough.
Poor design that should have been fixed before added.
Horde are winning like 80% of AV because of this.
1 Like
This dude gave you guys the keys to the castle in one sentence. You can’t just ignore the Horde rush and try to outrace them. The one game I lost last night was also the one game where Alliance players hung back to harass the advance party.
Horde aren’t winning %80 because of the terrain, they’re winning %80 because the Alliance is treating a PvP game like it’s PvE. I would wager there’s a high chance the map was laid out like it is intentionally because if it was dead mirrored it would encourage players to ignore one another and race to see who could down NPCs fastest. With the map slightly tilted to Horde’s favor, Alliance engages the Horde - or they lose.