Why I left FF14 for WoW

[Draconis-demon-soul]

@Gashy-zuljin

Not deflecting, literally telling you what it actually is and what my argument has been. Normal primals are designed to be easy because the majority of them are attached to the main story. Even extreme mode primals are not that hard because they are designed to be a step below savage raiding still and to be farmed for the mount they drop.

Maybe its difficult for you, but certainly not for the majority of the playerbase and not designed to be by the devs either.

The difficulty jump from normal heavensward to stormblood when concerning the primals in the game was tremendous compared to the old content when it launched.

The first time I did Tsuku normal, the raid wiped over 3 times until I took control of the group as the tank and guided them through it. After that, they succeeded. And even then there was still a ton of deaths. There still is for those coming into it.

Even then, comparing sync to unsynced is disingenuous, even on its face concerning difficulty. Primarily because with enough ilevel and damage, you skip mechanics. Suzaku Ex and her tankbuster/sweep knockback/instant death mechanic from auto attacks due to the debuff is a prime example of this.

Unsynced, you can skip that entirely, lowering difficulty significantly. It is, even at face value, not the same fight when considering that. And good groups mount farming or mat farming know how to force the skips unsynced easily.

Byakko Ex is also an example. A group who knows to stop dpsing him at a fixed percentage of his health unsynced can trigger him into an animation cycle where they can then force the skip of the tornado sequence and also a large part of his mechanics.

So, imo, unsynced is far, far, far easier than running synced.

One can also say final coil of bahamut unsynced does not compare even relatively well to the difficulty of it if it is ran synced. You cannot skip mechanics synced. Just not possible. And That raid, twintania especially back in the day, gave folks no end of fits.

[Gashy-zuljin]

Again with this, the person specifically said all content remains viable and told me from a current perspective that tsukoyomi specifically is a trial killer and challenging.

That is not the case. Why are you guys so against me mentioning unsync runs are a thing? that’s pretty much what everyone does for older primals when doing their extremes. It’s a perfectly valid thing to say and not disingenuous at all. Pretending that isn’t the case is what’s dishonest.

If you specifically want me to adress them when they are current then say that, but that’s not what was happening there. Yes, extreme primals when done normally and when they are current are a step up from the normal mode versions. Some of these are a little more trouble than others, this is also true. I stand by my saying however that extreme primals are not that challenging regardless, not because of unsync, but because they aren’t designed to be the most challenging content to begin with. They only drop weapons that are a step down from the savage ones, they are specifically intended for the more casual player even in FFXIV.

Primal extremes get pugged reliably all the time on the party finder, it’s not that bad.

[Draconis-demon-soul]

@Gashy-zuljin

Again with this, the person specifically said all content remains viable and told me from a current perspective that tsukoyomi specifically is a trial killer and challenging.

That is not the case. Why are you guys so against me mentioning unsync runs are a thing? that’s pretty much what everyone does for older primals when doing their extremes. It’s a perfectly valid thing to say and not disingenuous at all. Pretending that isn’t the case is what’s dishonest.

I mean, they’re not exactly wrong? Running Tsukuyomi synced on normal, through duty finder, I still run into tons of people who die in droves on normal mode, especially new players who hit it for the first time. Even I was shocked at the spike in difficulty when I did it the first time. Though I was able to overcome it relatively quickly.

Even then, the comment of the content still being relevant can be found to have good standing, specifically because of duty finder. You and I may not find the content to be difficult any longer, having experienced it full in many times and know what to do and how to deal with it. That however does not make it any less valid to others.

Nzoth LFR for example, as a counterpoint, to me, is not that difficult of a raid. It really isn’t. The mechanics are not that difficult to understand.

However, from my perception and perspective, completing it was an absolute nightmare on my way to Heroic unlock, because everyone kept dropping like flies. I could make the argument that this is due to bad design of the raid, and how, in comparison to FF, the content is difficult to clear not because of lack of the understanding of mechanics, but rather the design and how damage and things to do / avoid during the raid are not as well translated as say, how FF does The Final Coil of Bahamut.

I spent over 5 hours trying to clear that in a single day, multiple groups, tons of failures. From my perspective, it’s not a difficult fight. I honestly feel a well synced ff group, even through duty finder, could clear it np. But WoW players had no end of problems.

That perspective for others may be different for others in FF compared to your own. Your perspective does not subsequently invalidate the views of others in regards to that. What you feel and experience is not the same for them.

My best friend for example. She refused to get her horse mounts in Arr unsynced. She wanted to clear them synced. And synced, those ex fights were damned hard. Ramuh especially. To her, those clears were worth every wipe and all the frustration experienced and no less valid to her. Because she wanted the challenge, and her and I accomplished it together and she will have those memories of victory forever to cherish and hold.

That is content that will always be valid, IMO.

[Silvorin-bloodsail-buccaneers]

@Gashy-zuljin

Ugh, this old argument again. If I pay a sub I expect a decent amount of content, you can stop playing other MMO’s just the same if you’re feeling burn out it’s not something unique to FF14.

So WoW 7-8 month of no content to Ff14 3-4months of no content. Right now is end of expansion.

@Gashy-zuljin

Hah, no. You’re also very obviously padding your list there by mentioning house/appartment and pvp, fashion, gold saucer (lol) as well as some other things that

HOW. Name something that WoW has that FF14 doesn’t. NOT counting M+. Since that is just dungeon.
Housing is content, elitist dummy.

@Gashy-zuljin

What an insufferable argument, you know what I meant but you still had to be smug.

Yeah. ;p

@Gashy-zuljin

Literally nobody does that because there’s no point

But you can do it. WoW doesn’t have that. Image if you could Deathwing sync min-level. As well don’t have full talents Before level squish that was.

@Nexumus-argent-dawn

When someone is even remotely toxic in XIV:

I will say, it a little put off ish in term how nice and calm people are. One wipe in a dungeon or alliance raid and people don’t leave. But at same time, you can’t vent or people may report you for being toxic.

@Gashy-zuljin

Apparently you assume that I don’t consider playing WoW to be fun. I’m currently having loads of fun in TBC classic with my guild.

But you are raiding. Many don’t raid, even in wow. Heck. Many don’t do don’t anything other then quest/story.

I wish did more in classic/tbc, just couldn’t figure out which race to play.

@Gashy-zuljin

even giving tips to a player can get you banned in FF14 if they take issue with it. The rules regarding unwarranted advice is very strict.

@Nexumus-argent-dawn

If a player asks for tips? I doubt it. And it depends on how the tips are given.

If the tips were not asked for and unsolicited? Then. I mean. Okay yeah?

@Åru-emerald-dream

snip

As Aru said. It tone and how you do it.
If you say to a tank who doesn’t hold agoo. “Hey. Tank stance on?” That wont get you ban.
Now what will get you ban “Hey. beep, you need to stack on that you beeping beep” (“beep” is a bad word)

@Vherizmia-westfall

Because the outdated content WHEN RUN SYNCED is still relatively difficult, my entire point being that older content is still difficult enough to warrant mentioning even in present day. Seriously this isn’t rocket surgery

Agree. It not about LOOT. It about having fun. Maybe running with a fc/friend through it who didn’t do it back in the day.

[Midnightwolf-proudmoore]

@Gashy-zuljin

Again with this, the person specifically said all content remains viable and told me from a current perspective that tsukoyomi specifically is a trial killer and challenging.

That is not the case. Why are you guys so against me mentioning unsync runs are a thing? that’s pretty much what everyone does for older primals when doing their extremes. It’s a perfectly valid thing to say and not disingenuous at all. Pretending that isn’t the case is what’s dishonest.

If you specifically want me to adress them when they are current then say that, but that’s not what was happening there. Yes, extreme primals when done normally and when they are current are a step up from the normal mode versions. Some of these are a little more trouble than others, this is also true. I stand by my saying however that extreme primals are not that challenging regardless, not because of unsync, but because they aren’t designed to be the most challenging content to begin with. They only drop weapons that are a step down from the savage ones, they are specifically intended for the more casual player even in FFXIV.

Primal extremes get pugged reliably all the time on the party finder, it’s not that bad.

Gashy u amaze me u just have to bash FF14, and say we who do play it have no idea what we are talking about and only u do.Like I say u a die hard fan of World of Warcraft and I wouldn’t be surprise if u in a guild where elitism happens ,which is the majority in World of Warcraft Community ,and sadly why Wow community is toxic compare to FF14.I know I know u say FF14 more toxic than World of Warcraft.
U saying u been help in World of Warcraft Gashy good for u but please understand this majority of players do not get help in World of Warcraft, because of Elitism and because of Guilds only taking there favorite players over etc other people, and the highest dps people.
The Primal fights are very hard in FF14, and if u were on a FF14 forums vs World of Warcraft a lot of the FF14 community be disagreeing with u.The primal fights are a lot different than story mode primal fights, and the extreme version and etc have many mechanics which most in World of Warcraft players would not be able to do, and would wipe constantly. Even unsync doesn’t usually help either, because of the mechanics so please don’t tell me unsysnc makes it very easy. People in World of Warcraft that do mythic raids are over level and over gear meaning got gear and are 10 levels or higher than the originally raid was when it came out. I know I know you say the same in FF14 but sorry disagree.
No Matter what we say u just say World of Warcraft is better and FF14 stinks and is easy compare to wow.
I give u this Original World of Warcraft was hard like Molten Core and Black Wing Lair etc because of having no addons to help with the boss mechanics to tell u where to go and where to stand.

[Dalrond-moon-guard]

@Frostyjawn-andorhal

There’s crafted gear in WoW?

There is crafting in WoW?

[Frostyjawn-andorhal]

This largely true to me.

As pointed out multiple times when the WoW community offers “help” it’s a usually in the form of “git gud” or “bro, your dps is trash, do you know how to play?”

Neither of which are actually helpful or try and engage the other player. Rather they’re just setup as a means of insult. Now granted there are people who’d argue more free speech is better but I believe that while it’s important to have in a society, in a video game it’s not.

What is needed here a more hands on approach. Imagine if WoW started banning people on PUGs for the way they speak to others about their gameplay. You’d see after a month of actual bans that players attitudes would shift instantly. This bootstrap, condescending, and elitist attitude would % shift over night because of fear the ban.

In fact the reason why video games get this “toxic” tag is because they don’t step in enough to make sure players are at very minimum cordial. Does it reflect real life? No—and that’s a good thing.

[Burkkins-moon-guard]

@Dalrond-moon-guard

There is crafting in WoW?

Yeah, but you need to take archeology and engineering, then travel back in time to expansions that actually had meaningful crafting for all professions.

[Clâustus-dalaran]

I agree

[Stradkiller-alleria]

I’m shocked. A post where Wow is viewed favorably over FF14 has been flagged.

[Clâustus-dalaran]

The biggest problem with these types of people is they don’t see having to watch 3 hours of guides and reading an entire wiki before playing a video game as a bad thing. Is especially bad for older games which these people tend to obsess about. Its like they despise intuitive features in games.

[Delmen-dalaran]

@Gashy-zuljin

Again with this, the person specifically said all content remains viable and told me from a current perspective that tsukoyomi specifically is a trial killer and challenging.

That is not the case. Why are you guys so against me mentioning unsync runs are a thing? that’s pretty much what everyone does for older primals when doing their extremes. It’s a perfectly valid thing to say and not disingenuous at all. Pretending that isn’t the case is what’s dishonest.

I think the key part missing there is the roulettes in FFXIV, for which there isn’t a WoW equivalent. In WoW, once you outlevel something, you’re only going to naturally be doing it “unsynced” or else specifically going out of your way to limit your gear.

In FFXIV, on the other hand, roulettes remain standard, viable, useful, regular content even at max level (where it rewards currency for gear upgrades rather than experience). And when you get a trial like Tsukuyomi in roulette, it won’t be “unsynced”. Players regularly do “older” trials every day in “synced” format.

For the ARR trials, those even sometimes end up being done in the “extreme” versions synced because newer players follow the quest instructions and use the Duty Finder to queue for it rather than making a separate group (which then whisks in people who are doing roulette).

[Gashy-zuljin]

Yes, I know roulettes sync you. If you read my post you’d know I adressed both difficulties.

Calling roulettes viable and useful and regular content is a stretch and a half, people think it extremely tedious and only do it for so long as they need tome gear if they even bother with that since gearing is only relevant if you need a minimum item level to continue the story. It’s technically relevant, yes, but the reality is that most people only usually queue for expert roulette as that’s the one that gives some of the most tomes - which is usually the same 1 or 2 dungeons. Unless they really, really are behind on their weekly cap/want to grind it hardcore. Dungeons become pointless the moment you have the tome gear you want, if you even need it.

@Delmen-dalaran

For the ARR trials, those even sometimes end up being done in the “extreme” versions synced because newer players follow the quest instructions and use the Duty Finder to queue for it rather than making a separate group (which then whisks in people who are doing roulette).

Desperate argument, you know this isn’t really a thing and to even use it it as if it’s a meaningful something to mention is pathetic.

So many FF14 shills in this thread that pretend the toxicity is far worse in WoW than it really is. Not to mention bait nonsense regarding its crafting, at least in WoW crafting it may be less complex but you can also craft things that affect your gameplay. The most FF14 has for that is basic buff food and basic dps boost potions. Yawn.

Go to your FF14 forum or actually play the game if you think it so great, stop being dishonest about it on other forums.

[Chalanight-emerald-dream]

@Midnightwolf-proudmoore

cool u like it just take your time and don’t rush through it and they be people in the game that will help u unlike the wow community which they really don’t help others.

the FF community is nice…
until you start criticize their game then they show their true face

[Midnightwolf-proudmoore]

@Gashy-zuljin

Yes, I know roulettes sync you. If you read my post you’d know I adressed both difficulties.

Calling roulettes viable and useful and regular content is a stretch and a half, people think it extremely tedious and only do it for so long as they need tome gear if they even bother with that since gearing is only relevant if you need a minimum item level to continue the story. It’s technically relevant, yes, but the reality is that most people only usually queue for expert roulette as that’s the one that gives some of the most tomes - which is usually the same 1 or 2 dungeons. Unless they really, really are behind on their weekly cap/want to grind it hardcore. Dungeons become pointless the moment you have the tome gear you want, if you even need it.

@Delmen-dalaran

For the ARR trials, those even sometimes end up being done in the “extreme” versions synced because newer players follow the quest instructions and use the Duty Finder to queue for it rather than making a separate group (which then whisks in people who are doing roulette).

Desperate argument, you know this isn’t really a thing and to even use it it as if it’s a meaningful something to mention is pathetic.

So many FF14 shills in this thread that pretend the toxicity is far worse in WoW than it really is. Not to mention bait nonsense regarding its crafting, at least in WoW crafting it may be less complex but you can also craft things that affect your gameplay. The most FF14 has for that is basic buff food and basic dps boost potions. Yawn.

Go to your FF14 forum or actually play the game if you think it so great, stop being dishonest about it on other forums.

I give u this u sure know how to defend World f Warcraft and bash FF14 and probably every other MMO probably because u think World of Warcraft is the number one MMO. I got news for u because of recent stuff happening in World of Warcraft a lot of people been leaving WOW to go to other MMOS. I am going to guess u say they only leave to take a break yes for some but a majority are fed up with World of Warcraft for numerous reasons.

[anon91479146]

Cool man? Why do we care?

[Chalanight-emerald-dream]

because otherwise you wouldn’t be having the FF refer-a-friend pushers going full damage control and trying to pick at everything

[Delmen-dalaran]

@Gashy-zuljin

So many FF14 shills in this thread that pretend the toxicity is far worse in WoW than it really is. Not to mention bait nonsense regarding its crafting, at least in WoW crafting it may be less complex but you can also craft things that affect your gameplay. The most FF14 has for that is basic buff food and basic dps boost potions. Yawn.

Okay, now I truly give up with a troll like you. In all seriousness, the community isn’t even close. I played WoW originally, then both WoW and FF side-by-side, now mainly FF. It’s absurdly night and day in the community. I can count on one hand the number of “toxic” people I’ve encountered in FF over the course of probably about 4 years. I probably lose count in WoW every month.

And crafting useful in WoW? Seriously? Aside from a few fun engineering gadgets and some potions, the entire rest of crafting is worthless. Compare that to FF, where I can’t think of a crafting class that isn’t useful.

[Crössblëssër-alexstrasza]

Great response! I hate seeing that everyone is leaving for a game that clearly isn’t as good in design.

[Dappenettie-old-blanchy]

After downloading it earlier and playing it, I think it is pretty good, but so far I think for my droughts in WoW that I will stick with playing GW2, EQ2, or when I’m feeling a bit like nostalgia the original EQ. I hate paying subscription fees for games, otherwise I think I would stick with it. I’ll play it while the subscription is free, to get a better idea of the gameplay though as well as hopefully get a chance to try out their player housing.

I still love WoW though, I think it is the only game I would even consider paying a subscription for at the time.