Look I’m not saying there aren’t already catchup mechanics in the game, in fact it’s more of reason why I don’t see how this is necessary other than to increase the degree of catchup gear and relevancy. This is what I mean when I’m referring to Retail design philosophy when it comes to raiding and mythic+.
I’m not even saying I particularly even like the level of catchup or the raid loot structure in Wotlk but to compound what I view as a weak point and a turning point in WoWs history seems the complete opposite of the stated intentions of WoW Classic.
Kinda strange, I quit in MoP because of bad game design, not QOL features, and I’d wager most other people who quit did as well. Over the last 2 1/2 years, I’ve not met a single classic player that quit retail over QoL features. It was usually class changes, borrowed power, garrisons, entirely bad expansion, etc. I’d admit that most people didn’t care for LFR, but oddly enough, all these people are extremely pro-RDF.
It’s almost as if the clueless people blame RDF for everything, because they aren’t smart enough to actually think about the issues retail had that are just pure bad game design.
Fair enough. I interpreted Classic as a general term added to the expansions title as being close as possible to the “original experience”. The thing is, i think people interpret that as being a game unchanged and quite frankly when they talk about this experience, it was the more social environment of how groups were formed. How the game progressed from doing solo stuff to requiring friends and guilds to successfuly do harder content as that is the design i believe the game is and was then. Where your pool of players is from your specific servers community and how you interact with the community can have negative and positive effects.
Am i misunderstanding ?
Edit: I wager to that most have no issue with them fixing how progression works in wrath. Its a huge win for the more casual players and stops needless peoples participation doing 25m content for shards when its just easier in 10 with less people allowing for more raids to run for 25m group raiders. Its a huge win both sides. What still exists though is what i said above, although quite honestly, RDF for 1-80 dungeons ONLY if not this phase but next phase is 100% at this point i feel unargueable and really no loss anywhere, but a massive gain with little to no ripple effect.
Yes. Perhaps regular heroics will need to see the light also but for now i woud leave them out until they see a massive dead zone in heroics allowing fresh 80s a prepathing to gear for heroic+
…but why? What happens in heroics that doesn’t happen in regular dungeons? I see absolutely zero point in restricting RDF to non heroic variants only.
I keep seeing people try and compromise, but with really silly things.
RDF but remove the teleport. - Why? What are you losing by removing a 2-3 minute flight path?
RDF but only 1-70 content. - Why? I realize the need for RDF for lower level content, else that content will be avoided entirely, but why restrict it? Whats the point?
RDF but your server only. - Again…why? All this will do is hinder lower pop servers, where cross server RDF will be needed the most.
All these restrictions are just silly and unnecessary.
I’m totally on board with some changes that are in keeping with spirit of Classic content. But for me the Classic Experience I think it goes beyond just removing/adding a few social systems and in fact the power progression in WoW is tied closely to these social systems. If we head down the same path for the gearing path/structure as we see for retail it will have a major impact on how players play and interact with each other.
I think people don’t always understand that it’s a bigger picture than just RDF/LFR and the obvious social systems. People should be just as worried about the other facets of the game that are just as important to how it’s played and how it feels. These things still spill over to that social dynamic even if it may not be obvious initially.
I wouldn’t care if they removed the extra badges/gold from RDF entirely. That wasn’t why people used it, people used it so they could actually do the content. It was a nice bonus, but completely unnecessary.
I see more socialness happening because of how they have chosen to direct torwards it. Now you can take a 5 man to get catchup gear in smaller guilds (social), Possibly get 5 people to come togethar farming heroic+ and possibly staying togethar after and moving up a larger guild instead of solo. I just see alot more opportunities to foster some form of socialization amongst players down to even a 5m level. Problem with how wow had gear setup didnt help alot of the population. I think giving them avenues in a smaller social circle to attain gear in a catchup way outside of raiding older content and giving new players a better way to get into the game isn’t a bad thing. I don’t think this was ever a problem it was the fact RDF accomplished it. This doesn’t go that route.
Ah but you see that’s the exact philosophy that lead to what we have in WoW. The idea of hey quickly catchup to your friends after missing half the expansion and incentivizing small group activities and keeping it’s challenge and loot relevant throughout the life span of an expansion, is what spawned the issues we see in retail.
These things sound good in practice and in small measures they can work but when you compound these things it begins to degrade the overall experience. It’s a lesson I hoped the Classic dev team would have seen from looking at retail. Perhaps it’s a little bit slippery slope type talk but here we are sprinting down that slope.
I want to agree with the op. But i have to wait and see. I think they screwed up and are spreading the players across mutliple dungeons. Why not just increase the difficulty if the heroics?
Why is it so important that ppl wamt to run old raids? What was the point of makimg the hard mode normal mode share a lockout?
i mean people did run run dungeons in wrath a lot of the time. now about sharing lock outs. the heroic and normal modes in wrath always shared lock outs. that was a change in i think mist or wod.
I think that , in response to some of what he new content in Classic is about, I would keep classic in the frame of the driving force that caused (the) Classic project to be implemented in the first place, and not look for arbitrary changes at the behest of the vocal Majority/Minority ( both whomever they may be), they, as the tendency on some of the comments on what changes should or shouldn’t happen as expansions in Classic come along, elude the original player passion that sparked it, and the developers shouldn’t deviate from the “Classic” game too much.
That being said, Heroic+ dungeons in wrath have a possibility to add on to the “Classic” warcarft game, without displacing the classic game that is already there. It just becomes a question for the players when content feels mandatory.
Now is the best time for Blizzard to try new stuff, so we will see how it works out before “what comes next?”.
ya know, i agree leave wrath as is. don’t retail my wrath. now if they want to finish up the side raid to firelands when they drop cata? by all means do it. if we go to legion and we have a pit stop in wod, deliver us that third official raid tier we never got. but as it stands? naw, we don’t need additional content in wrath.
and anyone out there worried about raid loggers. eventually, that will be okay to be a raid logger. that was what was beautiful about classic wow. it didn’t need a lot of attention to be current.
If this were something totally new in terms of WoW or if the Classic devs had the resources to implement fresh ideas that could add something unique to Classic but maintain it’s original form then I’d totally be on board with what you’re saying (although again I think this should be more classic+ and not Wotlk Classic). But this is not an example of that in my eyes. This is a thrifty attempt at fixing a problem that may or may not exist in Wotlk using a retail design philosophy. This literally moves us down the exact same path but at a faster pace.