Why hate neutrality?

How can the US and Russia work together on a space station but be opposed on a military level?

How can the US and China be at military odds over Taiwan but have strong trade interdependency?

Nations with opposing interests can maintain military hostility but may work with other nations in other regards. Individuals / groups within said nations may work together while overall national tension simmers.

The Earthen Ring may be friendly despite race/faction while tensions between factions simmer. Even individuals within the Earthen Ring may harbor patriotism/animosity/etc leading them to support faction motions while others do not.

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I wouldn’t mind playing being neutral and having instanced fighting.

cold war status isnt actively trying to kill each other, however.
Even if there are tensions beween horde and alliance, it doesnt mean all out war, which is what some seem to want to do…beat the dead horse till the end of time

The writers could, possibly, write in rogue entities who keep flaming the violence, but without bringing back a full scale war, which was way past old about a decade or so ago.
Some horde or alliance character with a band of degenerates burns down another tree, horde denounces it politically, but doesnt really do much to stop it. Kind of like the Kree in the marvel movies where Ronin is concerned. They have a peace treaty but wont do squat to stop this genocidal citizen of their from doing what he does.
That would allow for some violent interaction between the factions, while not going back to the vomitous ‘war’ thing that just cant be justified anymore.

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Cold wars can include proxy wars however giving a narrative to pvp conflict.

I’m not speaking for everyone in this thread, but there are plenty of us who want faction conflict and aren’t calling for all-out faction war. There are plenty of ways to create nuanced narrative that supports both “realistic” faction conflict and cross-faction cooperative behavior.

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This goes for just about any lore in the Warcraft universe more than 18 years old.
:rofl:

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Exactly. 100%.

But Blizzard disagrees.

In real life, I agree with you completely.

But this is a fantasy world. This isn’t real life where “race” is basically meaningless aside from the cultural standards and expectations we place upon each other.

This is a world where “races” are more like different “species”. It’s not as easy to get along when you have different physiology, biological needs, and inherent abilities that set you apart from other races, or if you’re a literal rotting corpse whose mind is addled by the trauma of undeath.

We have a species that suffers from the lingering effects of demonic corruption (Blood Fury), a species that actually becomes more efficient and effective when harnessing their hatred (Berserk), and a species that can LITERALLY TURN TO STONE and neutralize poison and disease. (Stoneform).

(Don’t tell me these are “just” game mechanics. This is an RPG. Abilities have meaning)

If this world was “real”, we would be dealing with completely different species that evolved in completely different ways, whose behavior and priorities are inherently shaped by their unique physiology. It would not be as simple as humans from other races getting along. There are ACTUAL differences here that would shape us all in different directions. These differences would affect us in subtle and not-so-subtle ways.

It would cause us to have different values, priorities, and viewpoints on how the world should work. This doesn’t mean peace is IMPOSSIBLE, or that no exceptions would exist at all, but it’s a completely different scenario from our real life racial divides.

40K is much better at describing this, but interactions between different SPECIES can’t really be compared to that of ethnic groups within a single species. It’s also why I wish fantasy worlds would stop using the term “race” altogether, because it’s misleading and problematic, and it keeps us from exploring the complicated nuance of completely different species living together. It’s never as simple as “just getting along” when you’re all living on the same planet and competing for resources.

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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” Every time I see the word neutral, this is what comes to mind.

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And yet, what happened during the first orc mission and human mission?

Yes, not one central over arching singular narritive. However, the core namesake of “WARcraft” of the original RTS was still strongly represented.

It was the centerpiece but then it got bait and switched out of story both times.

lifts mask
Oh look Shaggy, it was old googly eyes void tentacle monster again.

Should have ended, both times, with us joining forces inSPITE of our differences, and resuming hostilities after. You know, like what happened with the Allies, Axis, and Russia? (EDIT) AND warcraft 3.

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It’s an old game and the “factions” are becoming more of a nuisance than anything. I lost the the feeling of alliance vs horde LONG ago. I have zero issues with doing dungeons or activities with the opposite faction in non war mode. Isn’t this why they added war mode to begin with? If I want to do a dungeon with someone on the other faction why is it a big deal? You can do it these days but there are still too many restrictions which I hope they will fix eventually. The worst part about all of this is that the pvp aspect in wow has always felt like an afterthought when the entire game is far more pve oriented.

When I play a mmo like daoc it’s completely the opposite because the game IS pvp oriented so the three factions make perfect sense.

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I wish I could upvote your post more. It’s the thing I’ve been screaming as I am reading this entire thread–over and over. It isn’t called World of Horde vs. Alliance. And sure, maybe there are factional wars in there from time to time, but most of the time we’re fighting existential threats to both sides’ continued existences. But sure…let’s narrow “war” to just “Horde vs. Alliance.” Clearly that is what “war” means.

headdesk

As for letting people being “loyalists” to their factions, I think this would actually be a lot of fun to do, if there were quests and writing that went along with it. Unfortunately, that’s a lot of work for something that is likely to be marginal. It would be interesting to have both sides turn on their respective own “loyalists” at some point, though, for ruining some aspect of the budding friendships that are forming. More fun, still, might be that an expansion of “red vs. blue” conflict does get to happen because of these machinations only for us to uncover those responsible for it–and then having to try and repair relationships–and seeing if people can be as forgiving as Tyrande was with Sylvannas, or if this spawns a new age of conflicts–where the PvP factions become three-fold–Horde “loyalists” vs. Alliance “loyalists” vs. World Peace Bros.

That’s asking a lot, though–a lot of time, thought, and writing and development effort. I -might- consider doing that if the investment was worth that time and effort, but man-hours vs. ROI doesn’t seem plausible right now. It is a shame, because I think many people might have liked the “Forsaken Forever” faction as a third faction rather than just making them part of the Horde. (In the WoW Beta, at one point, the Forsaken were a third faction–for a while. Undoubtedly this would prove to be far more complicated to develop, and so we got the two factions. C’est la vie).

Point being–we haven’t reached the point where developing stories for “off-shoot” factions is a viable investment, and the development costs for continuing to have two different faction stories has proven more costly to develop. Ergo, neutrality saves on development costs and creates more profit. It’s certainly not sexy, but from an investment stand-point, it makes sense.

One day, though…I hope games can offer us those other choices–factions and groups to become a part of that actually change and shift the dynamics of the way the game works. Where plots and storylines change based on what the player-base manages to accomplish (or fails to–rather like those times when we had to turn in supplies for the Ahn’Qiraj storyline, for instance). It would be interesting to see the changes that spawn because of such things, and those old die-hard spirits that choose to cling to their dying ideologies as the world moves beyond them (though one day, perhaps we may see them again–keepers of some long-lost knowledge or weapon or power…).

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I’m all for neutrality. I roleplay an Argent Crusade character.

And to that point, I wish Blizzard remembered they HAVE a neutral organization. I would have loved to see Argent Crusade NPCs in the recent Gilneas chain, fighting against Scarlets, for instance. Yeah, they don’t get involved in faction conflict. But this storyline was about Forsaken (Horde) giving Gilneas back to the Alliance, and I believe the Argent Crusade should have been able to assist with such an endeavor. Particularly when there’s Scarlets involved.

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lol most of the playbase

Define most?

Cause of responses here?

Just messing with you I always laugh when anyone uses “most “ “no one “ “everyone “ kind of lingo on forum posts. Jokes and speculation on how many still sub to the game aside I think it’s still minimal high six figures and I’d not be surprised it’s there’s still 1 or 2 million still subscribed.

So if all those players how does anyone know it’s “most “ players?

Most of 1 million is a lot forum posts YouTube comments or twitter posts!

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Reddit. The #1 source of the developers for feedback, according to Ion Hazzikostas.

You guys can argue day in and day out about the lore being bad or whatever, but the games declining population can’t support two factions anymore (ignoring the fact that even at the population peak it was never 50/50,it always leaned one side).

Brining the “war” that was always shoe horned in won’t bring players back to make factions possible for gameplay reasons.

There’s a very good reason any mmos that still exist that had factions have worked to remove them, because who woulda thought arbitrarly limiting who you can play with in a multi-player game is incredibly unhealthy for your games player base.