Why even go on Haste as an Ele Shaman?

PVP Arenas
1

Can someone explain to me why Haste is still considered a prio stat for elemental shamans in Arena, when everyone is playing with Windspeaker’s Lava Resurgence?

I still wonder that most top Eles only go up to about 25% Haste and then go Mastery. Actually, much higher Haste stats would be possible.
So what happens at 25% Haste? Why not 0% Haste, or why not 50% Haste?

Icy-Veins says: “Haste, you want a minimum of 25% while in PvP gear in Arena/Battleground. This is important for Flame Shock damage over time, and Lava Surge procs, as well as faster global cooldowns.”

But I don’t get it. Why Haste at all?

  • Flameshock Dmg??
    With Skybreaker’s Fiery Demise? Yes ofc. But without it Flameshock DMG isnt relevant enough to stand up to Mastery Lavaburts, no?
  • Lava Proccs??
    With Windspeaker’s Lava Resurgence I don’t even need them anymore.

So the only thing left is the GCD. And to be honest, I think it’s pretty decadent to go for Haste just because of GCD. If I can generate procs all the time anyway, isnt it better to go full Mastery then?

I dont say that Haste is garbage. Ofc: if you can shoot instants all the time, its better to shoot them every second instead of every 1,5 second, i get it…
BUT: isn’t it a lot of wasted potential if I only use a stat for GCD when it’s actually meant to shorten cast times? I only use half of the potential that the stat provides, whereas with Mastery I use the full potential.

2

Because more haste makes faster globals and faster flame shock ticks.

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3

Yeah but Flameshock ticks are weak, when i only need them for dmg, while Mastery gives me additional Lavabursts which are stronger.
And still the question: Why 25%? Its super easy to reach 40%+

4

Both stats are good. More ticks means more procs too.

5

The Talent gives you a proc with every Earthshock.
So its “LB → Earthshock ->LB → Earthshock ->LB → Earthshock ->…” anyway.
And everyone is playing it right now.

6

Okay.

7

shut your mouth gang :skull:

8

Yeah but if it’s ticking faster you are getting more opportunities for lava burst procs

An ele sham with high haste and medium mastery will get 100s of more globals off per game than an ele shaman with no haste and mega high mastery which means the high haste shaman will be doing WAY more overall damage.

Haste will start to DR after a certain percentage so you will be losing stats.

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9

Yeah i know, but like i said… Everyone is playing with that “Earthshock gives you free procc”-Talent now now (Windspeaker’s Lava Resurgence).
So you dont need those proccs from flameshock anymore.
At least not boosted with haste.

Do you know the exact math or a place where i can check it?

10

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/diminishing-returns-on-secondary-stats-in-world-of-warcraft

This link explains it. Most stats you don’t want over 30%. Just a heads up, mastery is weird and it scales different for some specs.

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11

There’s a soft cap for haste and I wouldn’t go over it

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12

the DR on mastery is 5400. It is 180 per point.

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13

Oh good to know. I was saying how it appears on the stats screen.

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14

Do you mean the thing Lilswole posted or do you mean because nothing goes under 0,75 GCD because that "soft"cap is pretty high.

15

Idk if it’s 30% like Swole said because stats have different soft caps. But if it is 30% then you’d put points into something else.

16

You have a source for that?
Where can i get all this infos.
Jeez, Blizzard.

17

Truevalue stat addon helps.

It just shows how much stat you’re “losing”.

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18

He’s right. I remember taking off all my gear, put on a mastery piece, and figured out how much mastery was 1% and I did some math and got the same number.

19

For most stats, you can simply divide the % by how much you have to get the amount, or close to the amount if you’re over one of the DR thresholds. So on my evoker I have 3655 haste and that is 21.50%, so 3655/21.50 = 170. If I did the same thing with mastery and simply said ok I have 3048 mastery which is 25.40%, then I would only get 120.

Mastery is a bit different to calculate compared to other stats since mastery deals in points and 1 mastery point will be a different % of mastery for each specific class. The key takeaway though is that each and every class has 8 mastery points as a baseline. So we take our total mastery which is 38.90% and subtract the 25.40% and that gives us our base mastery. Dracthyr evokers gains 1.5% mastery from awakened (this is actually 1 mastery point, so when dracthyr can be different classes this % will actually be different), so we then subtract 1.5 as well to get 12%. So 12 divided by our 8 mastery points gives us 1.5, meaning 1 mastery point gives us 1.5% mastery. So we take that 120 stat value we got earlier and multiply it by 1.5 to get 180.

Also, most class guides on wowhead are going to have this on their stat page:

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20

Also that above image from wowhead is technically wrong, since it doesn’t take the actual diminishing returns into account required to reach the next level of dimishing returns.
Stat No DR 1st DR 2nd DR 3rd DR 4th DR 5th DR
Vers 205 227.78 256.25 292.86 341.67 410
Crit 180 200 225 257.14 300 360
Mastery 180 200 225 257.14 300 360
Haste 170 188.89 212.5 242.86 283.33 340
Stat 30% 39% 47% 54% 66%
Vers 6150 8200 10250 12300 16400
Crit 5400 7200 9000 10800 14400
Mastery 5400 7200 9000 10800 14400
Haste 5100 6800 8500 10200 13600

So vers doesn’t hit 2nd dr until 8200, crit/mastery at 7200, and haste at 6800.

Or if we look just at the delta required
Stat 30% 39% 47% 54% 66%
Vers 6150 2050 2050 2050 4100
Crit 5400 1800 1800 1800 3600
Mastery 5400 1800 1800 1800 3600
Haste 5100 1700 1700 1700 3400

Essentially, we can see that after 30% there is a new breakpoint every 10% of a stat, but because of dr that 10% becomes 9% inside 1st dr, then 8% inside 2nd, then 7%, then 6%, then 5%.

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