Why Duel Spec is bad for the game

WoW Classic Season of Discovery
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This not only will serve as a rebuke of people who want duel specing in classic+ but also a criticism of the rune system, and a plea to increase the cost of respecing.

While being able to easily swap talents/runes seems like it opens up more options (and it might for a certain segment of players) for a large segment of players it feels more like it limits choice.

It is much harder for me to feel justified taking my off meta build when there is no resistance to swapping them. For example: runes. Regardless of what runes I want for flavor reason I found myself constantly swapping them depending on the content. Even individual bosses, let alone switching from Raiding, PVP, or solo content. Really I never have a build, I have a tool box.

Call me a hipster, call me a snowflake. But I like my character to stand out. And part of the fun of the game for me is finding underappreciated builds.

Another problem with allowing players to easily swap talents/runes is that it promotes mid maxing. Which probably has the biggest negative effect on PVP, because players will lose to a build and can just immediately swap to that same build.

Players in retail treat mid maxing like it is the players fault. But we classic big brain andy’s should be smart enough to realize that mid maxing is actually a system problem. It’s the game fault.

There are 3 main ways to dissentives midmaxing.

  1. Make options clear and concise.
  2. Make options flavorful.
  3. Make it harder to swap builds.

The classic talent tree is clear, flavorful, and has restrictions on swapping. And so I usually find myself building whatever I want.

But the retail tree in DF may be flavorful it is not clear or concise, and there are no restrictions in swapping. (in fact there is even an auto-generate and an import button). With this system I find myself looking up builds online.

And the rune system introduced in SoD was a move in the wrong direction. I want to play a class, not a toolbox. And I don’t want every single flavor-of-the month class in PVP taking 10 seconds to swap to.

TL:DR. Allowing players to easily swap builds promotes midmaxing and demotes creative builds.

I think the cost of respecing should be increased. People are too good at making gold in 2024. And many players are swapping builds between different content in classic. This behavior should be discouraged by increasing the cost of respecing to better match todays inflated player gold.

5 Likes
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Weird, because the runes and dual spec allow me to play multiple builds how I want and they are both off meta as well.

38 Likes
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While being able to easily swap talents/runes seems like it opens up more options (and it might for a certain segment of players) for a large segment of players it feels more like it limits choice.

Incentive structures don’t effect everybody exactly the same.

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QOL shouldnt be expensive. Im glad dual spec is as cheap as it is, its so cheap that I forgot whether it was 50g or 100g thats how insignificant the amount was, and it should stay that way in all versions of classic+.

Thats the entire point of the rune system, they literally designed it so we can change a couple runes and be good to go.

No you dont, you just told us that u feel inclined to use meta builds and not swap. If you actually cared you would simply play what you enjoy.

Because it is, everyone wants to play to the best of their abilities while playing optimally and “correctly”. Lets say dual spec didnt exist, what do you think changes? Ur just gonna walk over to org and respec to the proper spec for the content you plan on doing.

11 Likes
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It shouldnt be dual spec. You should be able to keep buying additional talent trees for a scaling price of gold. No reason to limit the amount of talent trees a character has.

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It allows me to have a pvp build and a pve build and any thing else is irrelevant.

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way too many words that could have just been condensed as “this is a you problem”, dorf. because that’s all this is – word salad to rationalize a problem that exists in your head, not in-game.

if you want to exist in the 2004 Azeroth where your character’s spec is like a damn tattoo, go play Era.

4 Likes
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You’re right about dual spec but it’s already in SoD. We ain’t going back now.

As for runes - I think they’re fine for SoD. Long-term, if Blizz decides to build on SoD, some of the runes could easily be baseline abilities. Others could disappear altogether.

2 Likes
9

Your feeling of compulsion to take “the meta build” is first and foremost, a problem entirely of your own making. I raid with a guild and my Shaman’s Raid DPS spec is also his open world and Player vs Player spec as a combination and compromise. I likely would gain a few dozen points of DPS by switching out of elemental damage reduction and I do not need Parry in raid, but I need them in the open world.
My alternate spec is a compromise between Elemental PvP/DPS and Elemental Tanking. It does not have Elemental Mastery, but it does have most of the DPS talents from the Elemental Tree and the defensive talents from the Enhancement tree.

Secondly, the Dual Specialization is why on my server, even with the population in decline from previous phases it is not difficult to get a group.
Tank and Healer specialized players are comfortable playing the game because they can also have a specialization that allows them to defend themselves effectively and be dangerous in the open world, but also be effective at healing.

One of the major reasons I burned out of 2019 classic was that I had to be a healer to raid, which is Restoration. Restoration Shaman is comparatively awful in all interactions that are not healing. For Molten Core, I could make it work with the Elemental/Resto build as a raid healer, but from BWL onward, I needed to be full restoration shaman to be effective. The locked nature of that, and the 50g per respect requirement to respec twice, twice per raid night, twice per week was cost prohibitive and removed any fun I would have otherwise had. The alternative was to “raidlog” entirely.

I quit when ZG came out because I was fed up with it.
I will never go back to Era, and Dual Specialization is one of the best changes in SoD for non-DPS players.

2 Likes
10

Ur just gonna walk over to org and respec to the proper spec for the content you plan on doing.

If I have fun using a wrench to hammer a nail I will try to do that. But if the hammer is right next to me I’ll find it hard not to just use the hammer. If the hammer is left at home I’d feel less inclined to switch tools.

Sure some people will still choose to use the wrench. But much fewer people would.

1 Like
11

Do not purchase Dual Specialization.

Your problem is solved.
(Do not try to impose the restrictions you feel you need on to other players because you cannot maintain self control in an area you desire.)

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12

Your feeling of compulsion to take “the meta build” is first and foremost, a problem entirely of your own making

No. Because in other games (including classic era) I do not look up builds, or swap builds to maximize content.

It is a system problem not a player problem.

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I bolded, italicized, and underlined the source of the problem in the above quote from you.
The system does not force you to do anything, at all.

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just like Rift did it … 13 years ago. you buy tree slots. I had 7 or so.

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Nobody said forced. It’s an incentive structure thing.

Economics 101. If you increase the cost of something fewer people will do it.

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I am aware of what you are getting at. But you are making an argument for restricting everyone else in order to compensate for your own lack of self control.

There is also a practical side to this, as I laid out earlier and you seem to have ignored the first time.
Were you here for Phase 2 when shadow priests became viable, and the world was filled with shadow priests with healer themed names and attempting to find a healer for any group content was difficult?

Dual Specialization solved that issue.

1 Like
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i don’t even have Dual Spec unlocked on either of my Hunters (both are 7/31/13) because there’s zero need.

other classes are different (like my dashing Level 80 Druid).

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18

Era Andys are super cringe

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It’s not really a self control thing. I just won’t play the game.

Because an RPG where you have no build, you are just a walking toolbox, isn’t a compelling RPG to me.

1 Like
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We all can’t wait for you to quit

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