Why don't the Kyrian just drop souls in other realms?

Lore Story Forum
41

See, you say that, but Tirion would’ve failed the Path, and he was the leader of the Argent Crusade. He loved his family to the point it became a driving force for his actions, he chose honor over duty, etc… There is no circumstance under which Tirion would’ve gone to Bastion if the Arbiter was judging his soul. Some Argents might’ve, but how many, and how many more Forsworn would be born from those who weren’t meant to go there, who will fail?

I’d also like to add I was specifically discussing them going to Revendreth to be purge of their sins.

No one is denying that souls going to the Maw is bad not just from, ‘There is no way those souls deserve that,’ but also, ‘we’re just making the Jailer stronger.’ But the Jailer remains Jailed. The only entities which can seemingly escape the Maw right now are the Maw Walkers and Mawsworn. The Jailer may be growing more powerful, but that power isn’t a threat right now. A threat right now is letting souls meander the mortal plane, either being gobbled up by other cosmic forces and threatening the balance of the universe which could lead to non-existence, or letting these souls wander around or try to go through each Covenant with no clue if they should be there or not.

42

All I’m really saying is they should try something else other than “The Path,” it will not restore my faith in them but at least they are attempting to not willingly and knowingly send souls to the Maw.

They are already doing this but on a far worst scale imo.

Souls are reasonable and have cognitive functions.

43

The Arbiter seems to be more artifact diety than biological so…have we tried turning her off and then on again?

5 Likes
44

They’ve tried turning her back on; it didn’t work.

45

So what exactly are their alternatives?

  1. Leave souls in the mortal plane.

What happens here? Well, we’ve been told that the number of ghosts in each world is going to skyrocket immensely, and these ghosts will become hostile and start killing the living, creating more ghosts that go hostile and kill and the living, and in who knows how long, all life in the mortal plane is now dead and angry ghosts.

Granted, that’s assuming that the Light, Void, or Demons don’t just start snatching up all these souls and devouring them to grow more powerful. In that case, the balance between the cosmic powers is thrown drastically off kilter, the stronger ones will consume the weaker, and the minute one is gone, all of existence is over.

So, yeah, leaving souls in the mortal plane is not an option.

  1. Bring souls to the Shadowlands, but not to Oribos.

So where do we put them? Every afterlife has a problem right now. A bunch of souls milling about is going to make that problem far, far worse. I’ve already given examples on this.

Please, the year is 2021, science has given us answers to questions we never even thought of to ask, and despite all that there are people who think the world is flat, and others who are refusing to wear masks in the middle of a global pandemic.

You suddenly expect the souls of the newly dead to get tucked away in a corner of the Shadowlands somewhere and what… just sit and twiddle their thumbs? How many were expecting an afterlife based on their religion from life? How many want to see their dead relatives and loved ones? How many are worried about where they’ll actually be sent once the dust settles?

You’re assuming the good behavior and compliance of all these souls, completely ignoring the fact people are stupid, prone to panic, and would currently be going through an immensely traumatic experience in that they just died.

These souls will be as much a danger to themselves as the rest of the Shadowlands, and lead to the destruction of the Shadowlands far faster than just letting them go into the Maw would.

Yes, the Jailer is growing stronger, but as he can’t do anything with that strength while he remains imprisoned, it is not an immediate concern. I agree, it sucks. There is no right answer here, and it’d be great if Blizzard could’ve gone to greater lengths to explain all of this to us rather than having us come to these answers ourselves, because while we might be smart enough to realize why things are happening, there are always those amongst us who refuse to accept anything unless it comes from Blizzard directly. That’s not a bad thing either. People should demand a source and want the research done and suitable explanations given by the Devs. I 100% agree that these questions were not adequately answered by Blizzard.

46

The Kyrian aren’t interested alternatives. They are set on sending souls to the most horrible place in the universe.

Leaving souls in the mortal plane would not be my first option but knowingly and willing throwing all souls into the worst place in the universe isn’t an option. Throwing them into the Maw should be the very last option, not the first.

It is literally one of a many options.

Twiddling their thumbs is a better option than getting tortured, pounded into the armor, weapons and dirt.

3 Likes
47

How would they pose a threat if the excess souls that aren’t used to draw anima is stored in a realm that’s not important to the machinery of death like Maldraxxus, Revendreth, Bastion or Ardenweald are?
Moving between shadowland realms is pretty darn hard without the right tools, so unless they got help literally invading the important realms then they would not pose a threat as big as empowering the Jailer while at the same time denying the important realms anima.
The moment the heart in Ardenweald runs out anima, the Jailer is released.

48

Well, that’s just a matter of posing hypothetical situations.

For example, let’s say there is a soul that should have gone to the Maw. Why? Because it is irredeemable, and powerful, and a danger to the Shadowlands. So, it instead is sent to the same afterlife Cairne Bloodhoof is in. This powerful and dangerous soul then destroys that afterlife and consumes the anima of every single soul there, and then starts locating other afterlives, moving towards them to repeat this process. Perhaps eventually it simple seeks to conquer the Shadowlands rather than consume them. Really depends on the soul and the kind of threat it poses.

Will the Covenants be able to react to that? Respond to it in any meaningful time frame while they’re already all-hands-on-deck just trying to keep the Shadowlands afloat?

It’s to say nothing about the danger even redeemable souls could pose if left unchecked.

Earlier I suggested Scarlet Crusaders in Bastion, but really, imagine if they wound up in some afterlife that’s dark and gritty. All it takes is one person to say, “Clearly this is our purpose; we claim and purify this place for the Light!” Now imagine a Naaru like Xe’ra hears prayers coming from these Scarlet Crusader souls who have taken over an afterlife… suddenly the Light has a foothold into the Shadowlands.

There are just too many ways for this to go south very fast.

Like I said before, we have people who won’t even put a mask on during a global pandemic right now. Knowing that, I highly doubt that a bunch of souls would be willing to just sit quietly in a corner twiddling their thumbs.

49

  1. Because other realms are not currently able to provide and care for an influx of random souls. All three of Bastion, Maldraxxus and Revendreth have civil wars going on and are thoroughly diverted from their usual duties, plus the anima drought bogging down their activities as a whole. Meanwhile, Ardenweald is triaging the entire population of souls already under its care between who gets to live or be destroyed forever.

  2. Because some souls are powerful, violent beings from across the universe that only the Maw can contain. We’re not talking about random Westfall bandits. We’re talking about things like supremely powerful mages, cult leaders, dragons, giants and so on. You don’t defer to the Arbiter’s judgement and the Maw, you potentially end up with Teron Gorefiend or Nefarian sitting in Bastion.

  3. Because you cannot drop any soul in any place. Each covenant specializes in specific doctrines and rituals to prapare fitting souls for their rightful afterlives and obtain anima from the process. You cannot condemn a soul meant for Ardenweald to go get tortured for nonexistent sins in Revendreth. That kind of misplaced soul in the wrong realm ends up as an extra mouth to feed without any anima to be obtained from it.

These three issues would make the crisis going on even more unmanageable.
As for why the Kyrians keep bringing souls back in the first place, that was answered already: souls cannot be allowed to linger and run rampant on the mortal planes either.

The best solution right now, a temporary solution, is what we’re already doing: fix the four realms as soon as possible while slowly retrieving suffering souls from the Maw and Torghast, and discover and repair what’s wrong with the Arbiter.

1 Like
50

First and foremost lets face the fact that the Kyrian don’t care if there was an issue with the other three realms of not; they are only concerned with the Path. So, if those other realms were doing great and prospering the Kyrian would knowingly and willing continue following the path even if it means sending innocent souls to the Maw.

Secondly the Kyrian have made zero attempts at reaching out to the other realms to ask if they could track, contain, or control souls that have not had the Arbitars judgement. As stated before, that is not the Path.

I would rather they came up with a system to track, contain, or control a soul until they fix the Arbitar rather than continue down The Path. I would rather they put Sally Mcinnocent next to a Eric Mcevil and attempt to keep tabs on them both rather than throwing Sally head first into the Maw.

I think its grossly disturbing that they are tossing everyone into the Maw because of “The Path”. Dare I say that these idiots are further along the evil scale than Sylvanas.

[quote=“Weeven-illidan, post:49, topic:841591”]
Because you cannot drop any soul in any place.[/quote]

Scoff, according The Path the Maw seems like the perfect place to drop them.

Can they at the very least try to put some effort into not sending all the souls they grab into the Maw?

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51

especially when doing so only serves to empower the jailor. and right now every soul in the universe is going to him

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52

You can’t drain Souls away to oblivion unless they are placed inside Wildseeds! I’ve seen a Soul drained completely of Anima and it is outright stated that Souls in Revendreth destined for the Maw get completely drained of Anima before being thrown in!

Souls that are irredeemable yet are low on Anima are probably the ones sent directly to the Maw(and get hacked apart for that low amount of Anima) while the Souls that are irredeemable yet high enough on Anima go to Revendreth to be harvested then get sent to the Maw with no Anima and get trampled to dirt or crystalized into Stygia!

1 Like
53

The Kyrian has to present a better reason other than “because The Path said so.” I’m not part of that cul…covenant so I don’t know all the inner working but could someone that is a part of that covenant please confirm or deny that there is more to it.

I feel that the Kyrian has presented an “ah ha” reason as to why they are chunking all the souls into the Maw. Maybe during campaigning, world quest etc etc.

1 Like
54

I haven’t finished the campaign because I’ve largely lost interest in playing WoW right now for multiple reasons, but last I saw, no, no real explanation was ever given other than, “The Eternal Ones are aware of the fate of souls brought to the Shadowlands and are trying to find a solution.”

Blizzard doesn’t seem to have put a lot of explanations into this expansion, despite a lot of explanation being needed for a lot of different things. As far as I know there is a line somewhere about souls left on the mortal plane becoming as grave a threat as the Scourge. Couldn’t tell you where I heard it though.

55

Thank you so much for your reply; I appreciate it.

I was looking for more of an immediate/temporary solution based dialogue for all the souls they are willingly damning to the Maw; vice an overall solution to fixing the Arbiter.

More specifically an alternative to The Path.

1 Like
56

I haven’t caught one yet. There isn’t any mention about stopping the souls from entering the Maw; just fixing the Arbiter.

57

Sending too much Anima to one place will draw Devourers so that’s a reason for not sending the majority of Souls to only the 4 Covenants!

The Devourers only ignore the Maw because even they know better than to attack it!

58

I’m sure with more communication they would be able to solve this. Bwonsamdi been managing his realm so I’m sure all the other ones could come up with something without needing the help of the deus ex machina known as the player.

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59

I would assume that more than just the 4 are suffering from an anima drought, in either case don’t draw too much seems like a better work around than the current status quo /shrug.

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60

But the maw is only reserved for the most irredeemable souls which are probably few, meaning most anima goes to the 4 main zones when the Arbiter is up and running.