I do agree the Night Elves didn’t refuse to help. We don’t have evidence they were asked. It is a fair clarification.
They just didn’t help.
2 Likes
Hm… I tried looking through Chronicle: Volume III, but it’s not really any clearer there when the Tauren official joined the Horde, and it seems to have just been left nebulous, similar to how there’s no official point at which the Night Elves joined the Alliance.
I think at this point we’re relying on a sort of “it just naturally happened” where their peoples just cooperated for so long that allegiances were just assumed after long enough.
2 Likes
Which is why I take issue with claims of “this is how it happened, and the only way it could have happened” unless the one making such a claim can provide proof, like if it was after Baine was rescued if just a simple Cairn talking with Thrall stating that maybe the bonds of friendship need to be a little more, or the tauren actually taking the Blood Oath of the Horde.
I also find that the reason for some races, I.E. Tauren, Forsaken and Night Elves “joining” their faction is just because Blizzard wanted 2 factions and could not deal with a neutral race, even if said race was heavy for one faction or the other, like Tauren would be for the Horde.
It’s a pretty common fantasy trope that elves don’t really care about bad stuff happening until it concerns them or their lands. Night Elves were likely keeping Centaurs and everything else out of their territory but outside that? Meh.
1 Like
Not really. It says the the Tuaren agrees to fight in the War in return for the Blood Debt they owed them for saving them. It’s specifically cited as the reason for fighting.
Then they return to Mulgore. NOT to the Horde.
Lets see.
Tauren weren’t a part of the Horde.
Rexar saves Baine.
Cairne and the Tauren Join the Horde in return.
Pretty darn straight forward.
Yes to the first part, no to the second.
They didn’t need to. Both went their own ways until the Horde needed help once again and sought out the Tauren again to seek their assistance once again.
Hypothetically, say if Baine wasn’t kidnapped when Rexar came to seek their help. Cairne wouldn’t have had any reason to offer up his people to fight against an enemy of the horde in a war that wasn’t theirs to fight. Unlike during the War of the Ancients, Cairne had no Blood Debt that he owed to the Horde so he was entirely within his rights to refuse to help the Horde, friendly relations or not.
You can argue that pass relations HELPED Cairne decide to join the Horde but you can’t HONESTLY say that he would have done so prior to the rescue of Baine.
No, that’s literally YOUR logic.
And the Answer would be no, that would not mean that the Tauren joined the Alliance. It means the Night Elves had helped the Tauren. That’s it.
What that would mean to their FUTURE relationship would depend on how those same events played out if the Night Elves did the same in each case.
The Lore would. The Tauren came to the Horde’s Aid because the Horde came to the Tauren’s aid once. That’s it.
In the same way the High Elves came to the Alliance’s Aid during Hyjal. Or the Shadowtooth Clan. Or the Barkskin furblogs. They all came to aid the Alliance but you can’t argue that they were members of the Alliance, right?
They also had bonds of friendship, the Tauren offering to be shamanistic advisors to the Horde, Oh, and on the claim the Tauren went to Mulgore and not the Horde, well, the Darkspears went to the Echo Islands and Rexar (the Horde agent for getting the other races to help the orcs in the founding of Durotar) had to help them out as well, does that mean the Darkspear were not members of the Horde either?
Look, you have YOUR interpretation of the lore, others have theirs, I am seeing how the lore can support both, one, or even NEITHER.
One can take the meeting of the Tauren and Horde, and the fact that Cairn sent some of his best warriors, as the Tauren joining the Horde.
Again, Provide CONCRETE PROOF that the Tauren joined the Horde after Baine was saved, as again if that produced another Blood debt, that debt was paid on Theramore.
If you can’t do that, counter my claims of:
Even another alliance poster is stating the lore is nebulous, if the lore is nebulous, then any claim that is lore based can be countered.
All your claims require others to have the same interpretation of the Lore that you do, can you not see why this is idiotic without some kind of concrete proof? Like the Tauren taking the Blood Oath of the Horde, or even a conversation that might go like:
Thrall-that is 2 times we have saved you or your kin and you have repaid us in kind
Cairn-yes, maybe we should make our alliance official and the Tauren join the Horde, with representatives in both our cities
Without proof of either, can you at least admit that, at least in the days of WCIII and WCIIEX: The Frozen Throne, the Horde was more like the alliance is supposed to be? I.E. bound by bonds of friendship, able to ask each other for aid, but well within their right to refuse.
I said the Tauren-orc (Horde) alliance was like Gondor and Rohan in LOTR, Rohan DID NOT send aid to Gondor, or even fight against Sauron, till Gandalf expelled Saruman’s influence from Théoden, just like the Tauren did not send aid to the orcs (Horde) till Bain was saved and Cairn’s spirit restored.
I am no longer saying you are outright wrong, just that there are many ways the lore can be interpreted, and if you continue to cling and convince other that your way is the only way, you better come up with some proof that can’t be easily countered with previous events, or, in some cases, what ifs that we don’t know due to how the lore is written.