Personally, I’ve never been a fan of Time Attack/Time Trial modes in games. You could ask that about a lot of things in WoW, though. Why don’t some people care about quests/story/lore? Why do some people only PvP in an obviously PvE-oriented game.
I like to increase ilvl by doing dungeons with increasing difficulty, but I don’t consider a speedrun system to be the best.
Defeating bosses in depleted keys don’t make sense, no progress felt when defeating on high difficulty. But we both agree that it feels that way in classic.
What there should be, is that the speedrun is completely optional and get items that are 1 ilvl less or not much noticeable difference in that they do, and that the difficulty of the dungeon increases in each encounter until you can no longer.
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Some of us just prefer the older days of being able to take dungeons at our own pace and have a good time. The dungeons could still be made challenging (Blizz literally nerfed Cata heroics because people complained), but the timer, for some of us, has kind of ruined dungeons. It feels more like the M+ decision was made for money reasons (esports) than it was as some grand solution for “fixing dungeons”.
The thing is, WoW had timed dungeons already with Challenge Modes. There’s no reason why Blizzard couldn’t have found a way to expand upon that system and make it something that players that are looking for a time-based challenge can enjoy and get good rewards from. Now Challenge Modes are gone, and it’s just M+ with no alternative. I’m personally not a fan of that.
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I hate the timers but I don’t know if I would want them to be removed entirely because I know there’s a lot of players who enjoy that content. The cats out of the bag already and I’m all for players having different options of enjoying the game.
I wonder if a satisfying compromise could be to have the timer kick in on higher level mythics (say +13 or 15 or something). That way it still kind of keeps that competitive feeling at the higher end for players who enjoy that. It would be like getting an additional affix.
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They stress me out, especially when someone makes a mistake, doubly so if I do.
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I don’t see a problem with beating the timer awarding +1 piece of loot.
Just beat the boss.
2 drops and a +1 key
Beat the timer
3 drops and a +2-3 key
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Timers kinda suck for me, I like dungeon crawls where the team kinda sticks it out to defeat X challenge. Timers just add unnecessary subconscious stress.
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Progression gear . why you think M+ dominates challenge mode then in participation rate ? You put gear into it have a lockout system and you are done
Well, you will get 220 in 9.0.5. 3 out of 5 is too much.
2 out of 5 for broken keys will fix the leavers problem, and that’s enough.
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You enjoy being kicked out for not doing what others want to do?
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It’s exactly like this now except the key drops a level if you just do the dungeon for completion. You still get loot and you get more loot and + key level for timing it.
Do you always join groups where their objectives are different from your objectives? Lol.
I realise it’s semantics but beating the boss should still reward a +1 key. Right now the timer is the win condition and that promotes the worst kind of game play.
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I dont think timers are the problem. What the problem is, that the whole playstyle and social aspect of the dungeon run shifted. The focus now is on speed. And speed doesnt leave time for communication or socialization. You want to get it done as fast as possible with as little need to communicate as possible. Organized groups still use Discord and communicate that way, but for the community at large, there is really little social aspect to them anymore.
Now something needed to be done to dungeons. M+ was a great solution. It made dungeons continual content. The other solution would be to remove the timer, but greatly increase the mob health and damage and difficulty per key level. This would require keys taking much longer. Setting up CC every pull. It would add the communication back into the game, but make dungeons take longer to do.
I dont think the timer is the best thing personally. It adds a level of tension and severely punishes mistakes. Which creates tension between players and groups.
I dont have a better solution. And the M+ timer, may be the least bad way to make dungeons continuous content. Or it may not.
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You can. As the OP stated , there’s enough people who don’t want to the go go go mentally it and therefore the timer doesn’t matter.
You can make your own groups for completion to where the timer doesn’t matter. People going into these groups are aware of that and wouldn’t mind an emergency break.
M+ leavers are worried about the timer. This does not apply to them, nor does them leaving affect people who don’t care about the timer
Then there would be absolutely no incentive for players to get better. That’s why the key level drops. It keeps players in content commensurate with their skill level.
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I personally enjoy mythic plus a lot more than raiding, but I believe the reason a portion of the community dislike the timer is because it steps away from the traditional pacing of WOW and other typical mmos. For the most part MMO’s were always a genre less about skill but more of a slow grind time investment. Previously a player’s strength in an MMO (Gear/levels/etc) was achieved by tedious grinds and schedules that would lead to them over-gearing an enemy rather than a need for actual mechanical skill and reflexes. Mythic plus’s timer and punishing mechanics, put a much larger emphasis on a players mechanical skill rather than the hours of grind work before hand that raids or long quest lines typically rewarded for. I personally never understood why people complain about the timer on mythic plus, as raid bosses have enrage timers as well. I suppose its because the enrage timer is less visible and seems more distant than the big ticking down mythic plus one.
Do they? Having a timer present does not make an individual mob pack or boss any more difficult, that comes from the affixes and scaling health/dmg increases. It’s not like you get immediately kicked out of the dungeon if you fail the timer. While there are currently slightly more item drops if you time the dungeon, before the introduction of requiring KSM for valor upgrades there really isn’t a lot of reward tied to successfully timing the dungeon either (raiderIO and such are player made constructs).
What does the timer actually add?
Source ? how many exactly are willing band for a lose scenario 
Or are just saying that to keep timer in m+
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It does. It adds a challenge. Run a 100m. No biggie. Now run 100m in 25 seconds. Okay no biggie, but a bit of urgency. Now run 100m in 15 seconds. Now you’re actually having to push yourself and try.
The distance doesn’t change, the content doesn’t change, you don’t change, but now you’re needing to work harder.
Now run 100m under 11 seconds. Now you’re needing to change things and work harder and push yourself beyond limits you didn’t even know existed.
It does add a challenge
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