Except all grinds keep you playing the game, not keep you from it. You even said it in your OP:
But also, all mmorpgs are grind games. It’s an inherent part of the genre.
It can, which was the point of my statement. Movement/Travel is probably the most core mechanic in the game. A lot of folks log into new toons and immediately hop a FP to a different zone. That’s flight/movement, bud. You’re just not in control of it.
Classic doesn’t have flightpaths? For some reason you keep separating flying on a flightpath and flying, when the only difference is control. We paid (now, we grind) to control the flying, that’s it. That’s the reward.
So, not literally. There were places you couldn’t go without flight.
It was the first thing everyone did when dinging 90, hence baseline. In order to get into the Vaults, you had to fly to its entrance or get summoned to the cliff in Kun Lai. Unless you leveled through the final zone and did the quest with the rope, it was required for reaching the PvP vendors too. And archaeology hand-ins.
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Movement might be, travel by self controlled flight is not.
So you’re fine with removing player controlled flight then ? Obviously not a core mechanic if Flightpaths are good enough for you.
In TBC. Specifically. In MoP, the only content hub was for a profession. That’s not “Core mechanic”. That’s “side activities”.
Getting the most convenient means of travel =/= Core Game Mechanic.
Dude, you’re wrong. The very first raid in MoP is on a raised cliff that requires flying to reach.
The PvP vendors were on the wall, also (as far as I know) can’t be reached until flying there to get the FP.
What? Lmao. I’m arguing for MORE flight and calling both FP and Flying (as well as ground mounts) all travel/movement core mechanics. This is the weirdest Strawman I’ve seen, and I’ve seen a ton.
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Not unless you just hate playing the game or aren’t very smart. For insrance pathfinder. Part 1 could be completed in less than a month, so could part 2. If all someone wanted was pathfinder they could have unsubbed 1 month into bfa, then resubbed when part 2 went live. There would be no increased sub time.
Not to mention, in Mists there were daily areas only accessible by flight and flight-specific content with the Cloud Serpents, similar to TBC’s Netherwing content in that regard.
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Yeah, I think this guy is a bit confused about MoP.
I said its an rpg. This is a genre of games. They pretty much all involve grinding.
I wouldn’t know, as i have never been to Korea…???
Yeah, there’s been flight-specific content in every expansion from TBC to Mists. Warlords was the first expansion to break that convention.
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That’s what happens when you get lazy and start removing stuff instead of designing for it.
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You don’t have to go to Korea. Not sure why they specifically named Korea; it’s more an Asian thing in general, but anyway…
WoW’s grinding compared to a lot of Asian MMOs is like night and day, which I think their point is, “At least it’s not as bad as those.” In that, I agree.
What I don’t necessarily agree with is the reward. Grinding for flying, which I did in BC when it was twice as long and harder to complete, especially getting my final flight form via a 25-part quest chain, 13 years ago, is not a great reward. All they’re doing is taking something from me and making me earn it back.
What’s wrong with FF XIV’s formula for flying? Just have us explore the zones. Why the need for all this extra stuff like rep grinds?
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There is one area in Valley of the Four winds to access a Hozen village. That’s it. And I’m pretty sure there’s a path up the mountain.
For Cloud Serpents, you required no flight to do it, you could grind eggs on the ground to exalted.
Because behaving badly without tethers means players will drop their support until it returns to good again. Tethers make it easier to keep people around whilst being awful.
Blizzard over the past few years has gone from an innovator to a marketer, and like all soul-less marketing machines, it relies on tethers instead of interest to keep people coming back.
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Why is it that “I’m unhappy with the current grind” always, without a hitch, eventually gets this kind of ridiculous, hyperbolic response?
The activities just aren’t fun - not repeated to the extent they are - it’s not about people wanting free things, it’s about wanting to get to the fun part of the game, and sooner.
If they made WQs more interesting, more varied, or simply added more of them, it’d take away a lot of the issue of hopping on every (other) day to do them. There’s rare ones out there, like the penguin race, which I will always do if I see them up - because I enjoy them. Having some kind of surprise to look forward to instead of the same old, same old would be nice.
Failing that, simply the freedom to attain rep as I see fit - WQs one day, dungeons the next, would kill a lot of tedium, too.
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Because if you could simply jump to the end there wouldn’t be much of a game, and if left to their own devices some number of players will do exactly that. This has been true since the game’s inception, so it’s not even an xpac-specific thing.
If I’m unhappy with an activity, then I find another more pleasing activity. It seems that you’d rather suffer through something you don’t like.
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You’re so close to getting it, so close…
I do often find myself choosing to ignore the content entirely and just focus on something I’d rather do. However - if I want to make my character more powerful in the content I’d much rather be doing, I’m heavily incentivized to do the things I’d really rather not.
That’s the entire point of the thread, really - we’re pushed into dull, repetitive WQs to attain character power - or in the case of flying, a major convenience.
Is wanting those WQs to be more varied, or interesting, such a bad thing?
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The same could be said for gear. You grind to get top gear, then next xpac its useless. The grind for flying really isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. There are people who have done the pathfinders in one week each. Grinding for professions is worse. Some of it requires exalted, not just revered, and i dont hear anybody complaining about that.
It’s not unreasonable, but if Blizz actually did that it’d be a marked change in direction. If you look at past xpacs, WQs and their predecessors (daily quests) were just as droll and repetitive (oftentimes moreso). From Blizzard’s point of view they’re probably wondering why players are suddenly unhappy with something they haven’t changed.