I’ve been randomly testing tanking specs and paladin seems to feel the worst. Playing on prot warrior is a night and day difference in ‘tankiness’.
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Tanking well with Prot Paladin is a lot more involved than other classes. It’s easy to get into, but has had a steeper skill wall for a while.
- Always stand in Consecration or get in a new one within 4 seconds with the talent.
- Always have the Shield of the Righteous buff rolling. Each application makes the buff timer stack from 4.5s to a max of 13s.
- Stat priority makes a big difference. Haste>Mastery>Crit/Vers. Getting ~25-30% baseline haste is important.
- Word of Glory applies a 6s armor buff.
- Damage from your Avenger’s Shield and Divine Toll generates an absorb shield.
- We have lots of low-cd defensives while other classes have a few big ones. Paladin tanks should be rotating low-cd defensives every pull.
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- Eye of Tyr is 45s pre-haste.
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- Ardent Defender is 1.5 minutes pre-haste + 2s CD reduction every 3 holy power spent.
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- Sentinel is 2 minutes pre-haste + holy power abilities reduce CD by 1.5s.
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- If you are Lightsmith Holy Bulwark is a 2 minutes pre-haste.
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- Defensive trinkets
- These Defensives should be used while you are still high HP. If you are holding CDs until you are low then you waited too long.
- Then you have the big defensives:
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- Guardian of Ancient Kings is 5 minutes pre-haste + holy power abilities reduce CD by 1.5s.
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- Divine Shield is 5 minutes pre-haste + 2s CD reduction every 3 holy power spent.
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Agreed with Sosari. While I don’t play the other tanks I will say for prot pally specifically, there is a lot of min maxing you can do and once you understand that as tanking, you will feel a lot better. Also it helps TREMENDOUSLY if you know what attacks the mobs do in dungeons and how your cds/defensives work. For example, the first guys “the gutters” in Siege put the “tooth breaker” debuff on you reducing 15% of your haste and that can stack into multiple debuffs on you, if you are not careful and think just having sotr and spamming wog will save you, You are in for a treat. So popping defensives Before you get into combat with those mobs will help a ton while tanking.
So things like that will help a ton when tanking.
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Yo sosari, I don’t want to make a new thread. As, you know I am only interested in meta tank class. So, how will prot pal look in 11.0.5 ? Will the changes make it meta ? The new Lay on Hand and short bubble cds look broken to me.
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Prot feels squishy because they got hit the hardest by the nerfs in the beta. They lowered the uptime of Sentinel and Eye of Tyr, nerfed our passive mitigation, and made Righteous Protector CDR our defensives slower.
WoG barely moves your health bar compared to DF.
The patch next week has a lot of buffs to Prot and that includes reverting a lot of the nerfs they made to our passive mitigation. They’re also making Gift of the Golden Val’kyr and Uther’s Counsel only cost 1 talent point.
You can also take Hand of the Protector a lot easier which makes Prot offhealing way stronger.
TLDR is next week should be a night-and-day difference on Prot Paly. It’s why I’m just playing mine now.
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Needs to have shield block and parry buffs that are actually meanifully VS melee, range, and spells.
Needs a lot more hp
Needs to have meaniful defensives
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YodaTV is doing no comms pug +14s, with the world first +15 being completed not too long ago.
Prot paladin requires a higher degree of familiarity with the spec and dungeon abilities, but it is definitely capable. I just couldn’t say it’s the best to learn as a tank first AND also push more punishing content at the same time.
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you know u can just be completely lazy and go full crit > mastery > vers > deadhaste lol.
- that 8% chance to block spells’ pretty op atm
It’s impossible to say with how many classes and specs are getting overhauls. Looking at the talent trees themselves, it seems like some nice but fairly minor switch-ups in terms of the tree itself.
In terms of tuning changes I think we will be in a better position than we are now, independent of other tanks, for sure. Base armor gains will do well with multiplicative damage reduction from procs, active and passive mitigation, and defensives.
The CD reduction to Judgement and Blessed Hammer will also add to Holy Power generation.
I highly advise against dead hasting. How much base parry do you get by doing that? I only have crit from a couple tier pieces and a few other slots and it’s 7.48% parry.
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Defense wise, I find prot pal will be fine with the buffs, but how’s about self-sustain ? Last time I played prot pal (slands and df), it was super tanky but its self-heal wasn’t so good; and currently people are complaining about how bad WoG is. Prot war, gdruid, vdh wouldn’t have taken the top spots without their strong self-sustain.
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I honestly can’t tell the difference. The people complaining about the WoG might be PvPers. I only play this toon so I’m not sure what other classes are pulling in terms of self-sustain which Details/WCL logs under “Healing Done”, but looking at some logged runs that pugs posted:
+10 GB: 600 million
+11 Mist: 512
+10 DB: 525
+10 NW: 572
I feel like Protection Paladin’s self sustain was always below DK (cause dk is dk), but above the rest.
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yes highly advise against it cuz u never tried. with flask and the talent, it will give u 20-33% constantly. + contrary, you’ll actually hit A LOT of buttons b/c of grand crusader popping all the times.
this is why u need to be greedy with gears, and hunt those mastery / crit plates and jewels
you all complain about being squishy while ignoring your 3 major defensive layers, Armor / block / parry
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We discussed this before and I’ll say it again. If it was that good, you would have seen many top players switch to stacking crit. We all know top players will change things for small gains.
Currently in the top 10 Protection Paladins in the world, 2/10 stacked crit/haste and 0/10 dead hasting with crit/mastery.
You are not answering my question. I specifically asked what your base parry is minus any buffs, procs, whatever. Just straight mousing over your Crit/Parry without anything running.
You need the haste for a number of reasons and stacking Crit is not worth everything else you are sacrificing.
Haste reduces:
- Global Cooldown
- Cooldown of Defensives = They come back up quicker
- Cooldown of Sentinel = More DPS
- Faster Holy Power generation
This is why your argumentation is bad. I have never complained about being squishy and most who do have low Haste.
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Prot Paladin is probably the easiest tank. That being said it does enter in mob packs a bit squishy. You really need to get in consecration before getting that initial wave of damage in, and you really need to make sure SOTR is up as soon as possible and stays up the entire time. Once you do that though, your cooldowns and huge Word of Glory casts trivialize most damage instances. If talented, make sure that you’re always getting your blessing of dusk. It’s incredibly easy to proc, you just need to get in the habit of not button mashing.
Your healer can help a bit with this. Shields and damage resists right on a pull really help out
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If I’m not going into a pull with active mitigation rolling then I’ll drop a consecration to get the 4 second buff before entering combat.
I’ll often even use Blessed Hammer while running to the next pack to get Holy Power and use SoTR to get that rolling as well.
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you are not 100% right in this one, it is haste does double dip the reduction in all CDs but what reduces the CDs most are talent.
and again, i’ve proven that the build concept already works, MANY TIMES. it is the easiest tanking build u can have where u can easily get away with a lot of mistakes. fwi it is the oldest pally build in the game that everyone have forgotten and new people to pallies never know it.
you wont feel squishy but the rest of you Does, u won’t even have this conversation the first place b/c most of you can’t think for yourselves nor learn how to synergize your talent, hence u rather copy and paste someone instead of learning how those build works. i bet those top 10 doesn’t even play like u do.
and fyi again, I have the gears for both builds. it is not like i am saying it to everyone that i don’t know how the haste build works, b/c WAY WAY WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY back in pandaland we’re the first people who popularized the haste build over passive mitigations(parry/dodge gears).
annnd guess what, u are the same people back then who said “HASTE WONT WORK” just like now, except this time it is all the way around. don’t be a sheep, think for urself 
kisser
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Yes talents help a lot with the CD reduction, but what reduces the CD through talents is Holy Power spenders. Which you get to use more of with Haste. Lower GCD and lower CDs of Judgement and Blessed hammer. You also don’t seem to realize that you are missing out on like 50% of Bloodlust the entire run.
You haven’t proven anything. All you did was theory craft and I proved to you that zero top players are dead hasting.
I already went over this too and it’s from improper play. You still are dodging my direct and very simple question of how much Parry you are getting straight from Crit stat.
Lmao, I like how you got your ego hurt enough to reply to me 4 separate times and to add a personal insult.
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Post from your high io tank main to back it up, or explain why something like bear / warrior are not currently easier.
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