Legion/BFA do one +15 a week and you’re done. Some chest drops are worth farming but often not.
SL: do ten +15s a week, and now items are often competitive thanks to valor upgrades.
DF: do eight +20s a week and farm items to upgrade again, god forbid you have a good item in hov because you have like 15 viable drops per spec in there.
Its incredibly more difficult to get 20’s because groups are far more strict about vetting here. 15s werent that big of a deal because there would be a rift between people pushing higher and people only filling weeklies.
Like consider stepping back or just divorcing m+ rewards from benefiting raiders.
Because it’s a form of end game. Imo the change to 20s has been a great change. Makes early 20s rewarding. Shouldn’t just be given gear because you did 1 low key. Should earn it. If you cant do a 15 then nothing going to change.
I think the two shouldn’t be considered together at all. Raids are a fixed challenge that from day 1 to the next raids do not change other than some usually minor adjustments.
Mythic keys are an every increasing challenge that rotate affixes every week and despite doing them 100 times so far i still enjoy. People that do mythic+ because they feel they have to are addicts that will play the game no matter what. They’re the same people that did every daily because they felt they had. You aren’t required to do anything, it’s a game, you should play the way that works best for you.
Also this will make some people’s heads explode. But if you’re in a guild that requires you to do content you don’t want to do, you’re in the wrong guild. I started off this season in a ce guild that raided 3x a week for 3 hours each. It was absolutely miserable. I started my own guild and built a raid team that isn’t breaking any records but we have fun. If the game isn’t fun you’re doing it wrong.
15s were a joke in Shadowlands and Blizzard realized it was entirely too rewarding for how low-effort it was compared to Mythic raids. Getting top tier loot for +15s made anything below Mythic raids pointless in terms of loot progression.
If you aren’t pushing your IO score from the start of the season then you end up behind because the majority of players doing +20s on farm now are all 2700+ IO score. There’s also a ton of people applying to keys. The only way you’re going to move up is by riding your own key. I posted my +20 CoS on Monday and in 5 minutes I had 124 applicants.
Also, with the rewards scaling up to +20: it ends up extending the season a bit longer than when before you just did all +15s, hit KSM, and never had a reason to go any higher if you didn’t care about portals.
The catch-22 though is that being able to valor upgrade and craft items to 415 makes us gear up a lot faster than previous seasons. So 2 months in the expansion launch people are going to be iLvl capped when it’s usually around 3 months. So that leaves you with 3-4 months until the next patch with no real gear to work towards. People will get bored and raid log.
Players: “Make the game less raid or die please”
Blizzard: Adds a new gear progression mode so the game isn’t raid or die
Players: “Why did you make the game less raid or die!?”
Blizzard: facepalms
Lie!
Tier sets, busted raid trinkets/equips and the m+ vault would like a word with you.
Tier set can proc from the vault about as often as you got max Titanforge item during legion. The only difference between the two is that tier is actually way worse and creates way bigger cap than just higher +15 ilvl.
Hopefully one day ion will stop trying to make raids look better by making them a must for everything else and by nerfing every single content that dares to content with it and instead will try to actually address the problems that caused ppl to no longer choose to raid despite every cheap trick they tried.
Actually a lot more often than that, most people I know have had tier in every vault so far.
You mean the Tier sets that you can get via the creation catalyst that everyone has access to? In terms of trinkets, some specs want m+ trinkets over raid ones as well.
Good for them, I guess they live in Alice’s wonderland or idk.
By the time catalyst comes, progress part of the season is already over. If I want to faceroll m+ achievements then I can do it in the last month of the season anyway when everything is already nerfed to death and limits/timegates are lifted + no one needs any gear.
When we would actually need tier bonuses we do not have them, that is the point and having them when we already vastly overgear content because of the natural progress of the season(provided you play from start) does not help at all.
Right now if you do not have tier and you do not raid, then you are a deadweight for your !!M+!! group(notice I did not say raid group here). All of this because you do the content you wish to push… Yes we have such devil ideas, the horror right?
Exceptions exist, I do not say they don’t, but some lucky specs are nothing against every other spec. There is not a single spec I’ve played yet which does not need raid gear on almost every single slot except profs “legendries” and misc.
Also lets not forget SL S4 STR weapon from jailer which actually was so broken that guaridan druids too actually wanted to get it instead of an agility weapon. Blizzard did not see it as an issue so that should give you an idea on how much they care about balance.
In addition to that as far as I am aware the absolute highest ilvl in the game still drops from mythic raids and still work everywhere else, despite the fact that nothing else can drop such items.
This game is raid or die, no matter how we look it. And the most saddening part is that, it did not even help raids at all, but for some reason blizzard/ion is not willing to actually try and fix issues mentioned here/ingame/on wowhead/reddit and everywhere else for ages now. This behavior did not benefit anyone so far and will continue to degenerate this game.
I wasn’t aware that the season is already over. Progress is a personal thing, it can happen any time during the season.
Most tier set bonuses are a total (both 2 pc and 4pc combined) a throughput increase of less than 10%. Tier bonuses are not what’s holding you back from clearing an m+.
424 only drops from mythic broodkeeper and mythic razegeth, the two hardest bosses in the game right now. Why wouldn’t the hardest content drop the best loot?
Tier sets being obtainable outside of raid and m+ giving mythic raid level gear via upgrades and vault means you’re wrong.
This is not true at all. People are clearly still progressing and it’s a week before Catalyst comes out and they will continue progressing. The loot shifting to +20 changed the progression path majorly. Only 12.6% have KSM compared to the Shadowlands norm of about 25%.
Tier sets are much less impactful than they were in Shadowlands. They intentionally made them so we rely less on borrowed power. You are definitely not dead weight.
In legion and in the majority of BFA, weekly chest meant nothing in terms of gear drop because we had titanforge instead which meant you could get upgrade anytime from literally anywhere, even from an LFR or m0;
Also its important to note here that in BfA you were also getting TR currency from weekly chest based on your highest key completed and you could use it to buy random or targeted Tier-like items on the ilvl you wanted. It was way less raid or die even though the absolute bis still came from raids, at least you had something similar.
The difference is not this simple, especially if we consider both expansions. In legion you got currency to upgrade legendary ilvls and in 7.3 to buy certain pieces deterministically.