I know in WoD it was, but every since legion I think it has gotten easier, well to be fair all the rogue specs got easier in legion. But what makes sub harder to play then sin or combat now. Is it that you have to hit more buttons more often? For people like me, I probably have A.D.D., not hitting buttons is harder. But I just want to know why everyone says sub is harder to play, maybe I am playing sub wrong or hell all the rogue specs, lol.
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Sorry here is my main rogue and I dont know why it picked the other rogue for my profile. Hell i have 4 of at or above 50 now.
You have to micro manage symbols/dance/find weakness
Itâs a lot more forgiving now
Sub is harder to play than the other specs in pvp, in pve itâs rather straight forward
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Subtlety is less forgiving if you make a mistake. Itâs more punishing when you lose uptime due to mechanics (my biggest frustration). Feels bad when pop Shadow Dance and 2 seconds later you have to avoid some mechanic or run half way across the room to kill an add.
With Assassination, you can still contribute dps due to all of the Dots you have ticking on a target. Running out to dodge crap actually gives you a moment to pool energy.
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This is true.
Sub requires more coordination and working with teammates in PVP. In PVE I think Assassination has just as much to juggle as Sub so it comes down to preference.
Itâs not really that hard anymore, but it can be punishing when you do make mistakes. Thinking itâs hard is a hold over from harder versions of the spec. Itâs basically brain dead in AoE situations. Strictly talking PvE here.
Basically just make sure youâre not timing your dance a mechanic and youâll be okay. Ever since they made Dance a rotational ability and not a real cooldown it hits like a wet noodle outside of it.
Sub has more âgoing onâ, and more timings to keep track of, than the other rogue specs.
Combat is basically just blowing all your cooldowns when theyâre up (unless saving for a burn phase). Assassination is just keeping up with your maintenance buffs & debuff. Sub has maintenance buffs & debuffs, higher degrees of cooldown management, and much more noticeable âburn windowsâ than the other specs.
That said, current sub isnât really hard. Itâs pretty brain-dead easy compared to WoD sub. And WoD sub was baby-town-frollicks when held up next to Cata sub. I think the more accurate way of thinking is that current Sub is one of the few specs (for any class) which plays similar to how things were pre Legion. You know, when the devs turned all specs into four-button abominations with 1 cooldown, 2 damage abilities, and 1 debuff / buff to maintain. A trend which still holds true for most specs in the game.
So itâs less of a âSub hardâ thing. More that most of the gameâs edges & decision making has been sanded away, but Sub still sorta plays like how it used to be with a variety of different length cooldowns coupled with multiple maintenance elements.
ITT: A bunch of rogues with no raid experience (and seemingly no sub experience) tell us how easy sub is. More at 11.
Sub is miles ahead in difficulty than both sin and outlaw. Still to this day I am improving at it. Not only do you have to be perfect at sub you also have to be perfect at raids. Any tiny loss in downtime is a massive dps loss for sub. You arenât just losing the dps of not being there you are losing your combo point dump to shorten your dance cooldown along with your energy regen. Outlaw with itâs 8 yard attack range and sin with lolpoisons and bleeds you do not really suffer at all from breaks in uptime and mechanics. (outlaw can cheese so many mechanics with 8yd. It almost feels like playing a ranged class)
Then you can move on to the rotations. Sin and outlaw each have a rotation that can make even the most caffeinated gamers sleepy. Outlaw for instance has a single rotation and if there are more than 1 mob you continue doing the same thing but just hit blade flurry on CD. As long as BtE has good uptime you could honestly do a /castrandom macro on the other abilities and do decent damage.
When it comes to sin. Most of your damage AND your energy regen is tied to dots and poisons ticking while having an easy rotation with very little conditionals like buff windows (hello dance / symbols). That means that you could literally take your hands off the keyboard multiple times a fight and do close to your potential dps. The energy thing is huge on fights like sludgefist where the knockbacks / charges / death circles cause sub to lose a significant portion of its energy regen since it is tied to auto attacking. You get double punished for downtime. Sin doesnât deal with this. Get poisons / bleeds rolling, use shiv on cooldown, spam mute/envenom. Thatâs literally it. We can also state that sin has only a single page of abilities. 4 of which are passives. The spec literally only gives you 8 buttons you can press. Talents donât even change this. Every BIS talent you take is a passive. You are literally playing babyâs first melee dps class with sin, which is why I assume it is so popular with you guys. It is the only way people can actually play a rogue with success when it is tuned well.
Yes, modern sub is noticeably more nuanced than other modern rogue specs (or specs in general). That doesnât make it engaging or difficult; itâs still suffering from the two xpacs of straight lobotomization that went on.
The title is clearly asking to discuss why people say that sub is the hardest current rogue spec. Why are you talking about other expansions. Hell letâs just talk about other games. Sub in Cata was easier to execute than Fox in SSBM so itâs easy right? Like rogues on this forum are literally unable to stay on topic. Itâs like a freaking disease. Literally noone cares about your thoughts on other things. Make your own topic to compare current rogues to past ones if that is what you want to speak about.
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Bud, the OP literally opens by talking about two previous xpacs in the first sentence. Not sure where the attitude comes from.
This is literally after he says anything about the past expansions.
And the âattitudeâ is from me being tired of constantly seeing topics derailed on this sub to absolute nonsense.
As you derail the thread by complaining about other posters on this forum.
On topic, absolutely no one is saying sub is âthe hard specâ here and now, in Shadowlands. This is an outdated perception. Itâs fine that the conversation quickly shifted off of this baseless assertion.
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Option 1: Attacking people for talking about the thread subject and pointing out how it bridges multiple areas.
Option 2: Screaming and crying about people âderailingâ threads.
Pick one, you canât have them both.
My original post addressed sub (and all other specs) in current SL, then spoke about where the perception comes from, and then tied it back together by returning to the âpresent timeâ and talking about subâs difficulty curve yet again in SL.
Because, and you may have to sit down to hear this, but subjects can have a history. And itâs not uncommon for said history to be directly relevant to the modern iteration.
Sort of like how discussions about WW2 combat arenât all âshooty boomy DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA PEW PEW neeeeooooowwwwww blitz blitz blitz!â but also need to touch on the what was learned about warfare in WW1, and why it evolved in that particular way.
Sub, with over a decade of spec history and perceptions behind that, is like that.
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Itâs just a hold over from people thinking theyâre leet gamers because once upon a time sub was legitimately the hardest spec in the game.
When sub plays like it used to Iâll for sure play it, I used to play every spec interchangeably but theyâve butchered 2 of the 3 specs on my favorite class in the game.
Even though it was disgusting I did really like sub with multistrike in WoD lol.
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Ah yes another rogue with zero experience as sub and lackluster parses on meme specs where there is no competition saying how easy sub is.
It is easy. Get over it. lol
Itâs easier than past expansions but itâs not sin easy.
Yikes someone is in denial hard. I didnât even know I had logs up Iâve pugged everything so far so thanks I guess?
Just taking a cursory glance my best shriekwing kill it was done at 203 ilvl and it took 2 minutes longer than your kill.
I guess itâs just easier to discredit people without looking into it then come to terms with reality, best of luck to ya!
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