This is quite puzzling to me, why add an internal cd instead of just making the damage a little lower?
Especially when it’s a 1 sec ICD and the GCD can go down to 0.75.
What a weird choice.
I mean if it were up to me I would just remove the ICD and slightly reduce damage to compensate but if you’re gonna add an ICD at least make it 0.75
There shoulsnt be an icd period. During bursts windows not all spenders get to drop EH leading to lights deliverance stacks lost
Yes, there shouldn’t be
It would also be cool because of empyrean legacy double spender.
I just do not understand the reasoning, they even decreased the stacks to get hammer of light from 60 to 50, why not just instead remove the ICD?
Sometimes blizzard decisions are just weird
The idea was probably to alternate spender builder, but this just goes to show that they don’t test their creations, that is not an option sometimes unless you wanna waste holy power which is worse than not getting a proc of empyrean hammer. Wasting a few resources because of overflow and knowingly wasting resources while making that decision, it’s a completely different feeling, one is somewhat inconsequential if fixed it would be better but not if it comes at the expense of the overall gameplay, the other just feels bad, because it’s usually the result of a dev putting weird unnecessary conditions just to create " friction"
Is this another case of creating “friction” just because? So dumb. Friction is not what makes an ability cool to press, positive interactions are far superior to negative one in terms of how they feel. At least here it’s not a super mega big deal, but it is annoying to press abilities and know that you could be losing on something and there is nothing you can do about it because a dev thought it was a good idea to slap an internal cool down completely arbitrarily
I woukd agree if they wanted us to builder spender due to dawn but the rotation ita so fast that we cant even get one dawn stack per every spender. Its just strange. Even on prot since sotr os off the gcd, with full hp and sanctified wrath divine purpose you can get back to back to back sotr and no eh will drop because we are just too fast
Removing the ICD wouldn’t have had the impact of a 10 stack reduction.
That being said, if we’re limited by the GCD anyway, there’s no point to the ICD.
Just feel like yet another interaction that hinders the scaling of a stat.
No wonder haste as fallen this much in priority.
i mean that wouldnt make haste a stronger stat, it would give it a hefty boost sure but it would still fall short of crit and mastery for keys
Probably not but it’s just that over the course of 2 years, we went from haste/mastery to haste/vers to crit/mastery through incremental changes to Ret.
Be it:
All of this made haste fall behind.
It still relatively good but that’s yet another tile on it’s head is all I’m saying.
Where it is mostly pointless at this because, it’s wouldn’t really be a problem even if it didn’t had that weird ICD.
So what if Empyrean legacy triggers it twice once every 20sec, that’s what we should expect from the talent.
What’s weird is that it doesn’t act like this.
Haste was really good when we had the woa reset with seraphim proc on art of war, but i think it’s also being overstated how bad haste is currently, based on a couple of sims i have done, haste is still quite good, it only falls off compared to crit in aoe, but in st it’s damn close.
If they wanted to make it scale better they could just bring back some similar mechanic to seraphim on art of war, or just bring that back, and a secondary proc on blade of justice, for example, i remember a conversation a while ago about exorcism, and while it was awful in df, they could bring it back in a similar manner to how the woa reset worked, basically, 50% chance or 35% or whatever is balanced, just don’t make it too low, and make us pray for a powerful proc, that generally feels awful, rather get more weaker procs, than one that is super powerful but you gotta beg on your knees for it to work.
It would make your next blade of justice be exorcism instead, exorcism deal significantly more damage than blade, and generates 1 extra hp.
These 2 changes would basically make haste scale the best, guaranteed, in st at least, in aoe, crit would still likely be better.
This might require some holy power gen reshuffling, i personally really like high generation/spend type gameplay, if i were to do something i would simply make judgement 1 holy power always, make blade generate 2 baseline, this would also make the extra hp from exo, less valuable by comparison. From 1 to 2 is 100%, from 2 to 3 it’s 50%.
This should leave holy power gen relatively unchanged compared to now, but it would just feel better to play, at least in my opinion.
Exactly! 
??? there was never a point you focused on haste and mastery only, pre rework ret loved all 4 stats somewhat equally, hence why the best rets had somewhat even spread of all 4 stats and thus werent effected by recrafting to much. we still saw this as a trend in post rework ret until later patches where we had the lego which pushed verse alot higher than before, it all 4 stats were still somewhat equal.
now we have two specific stat priorities but even then its minimal cause youd still sim your upgrades and sometimes sims will suggest crazy things like giving you items that have haste. yall just focus way to much on secondary stats for pve when no one here plays at a level where stacking specific stats would matter
haste also makes alot of our dots tick faster btw. while yes i agree that the icd is very strange and frankly unneeded for templar, i dont think removing it would make haste any better than it is now. we would still follow the same stat priority of mastery and crit pushing ahead of haste and verse by some margins
I’m not saying there was a situation where you literally didn’t want the other stats but pre-rework (SL and before) haste was very important and then it went Mastery/Crit/Vers with the value somewhat close together but mastery was usually the way to go.
The damage was all packed into the spenders which meant you wanted to generate as much HP as possible as fast as possible.
We already had some intermittent stat boost through Seraphim and effect like Light decree emphasized haste even more since you wanted to pack as much spender in AW as possible with as much flexibility you could get.
Like I said, it’s just another brick.
By itself it wouldn’t change anything but I listed other stuff that are now kind of stacking “against it”.
Previously where you wanted to probably “cap it” at around 28-30% somewhat early, now sims makes you prioritize something else first.
It’s not to say that’s its bad, like Lenegis said they are still very close when you compare pieces but all these interaction really reeled it back compared to what it was previously or at least pushed the other stats forward a bit more.
Not sure if I should ask the question here, but…
Concerning Crusading Strikes: Since it’s supposed to inherit Crusader Strikes benefits, does Swift Justice actually reduce the cooldown of Crusading Strikes, making it auto-attack quicker?
i feel like your just reading into stats way to much, youd still want somewhat even stats in sl and bfa and what not. never really got out of the 20/30 % stat for each secondary at any point in recent memory. post rework i didnt even need to recraft anything
its hardly a brick tbh. its more like other stats have more going for it.
no
why is every solution you give is such super rng wake reset type poop that makes or breaks damage?
were already somewhat rng reliant with RG why do we want to add more to it
Why is your solution to everything just add more damage inside cd windows? And to remove aspects of gameplay that bring some dynamism in the spec, so you actually have something to look forwards to when playing the game instead of just going with the flow doing the same thing over and over ever unchanging, with little to no interactions, because rng bad, cdr bad, cde bad, everything bad aside things that increase my cd window damage?
Yea exactly, please shut up. I don’t wanna have this conversation again.
At least what i suggest actually make a spec more enjoyable to play, your ideas are pretty much always reductive in nature to accomodate for bigger burst inside cds. Which is like… Awful, and not the direction the game should be going.
your solutions is again, lets slap rng on it and make a spec reliant on rng more reliant on rng to do its maximum potential. you can make a spec fun without oversaturating it with rng on top of rng. divine purpose kinda fits this now that spender damage was regulated to what it is now.
the max damage of any spec shouldnt be dependent on whether or not you highrolled on something.
you yourself even complain about this about havoc demon hunter with AFI talent. why are you flip flopping with ret? when its arguably mroe rng dependent than demon hunter rn.
you can add rng to a sepc and make it fun thats fine, but it has to be on borrowed power not baked into the baseline spec. this is why ret shadowlands tier was uber fun and succesfful while its interjection to rets baseline in df was met with general disgust and replaced the moment radiant decree was within margin of it in sims.
if you want rng, the lobby for borrowed power that brings that freshness and interactivity to the spec. dont lobby for it to become baseline where it becomes frustrating
What’s a brick to a wall?
An insignificant part
It’s the action of stacking them and we got some stacked.
It’s a small wall mind you.
Like we said haste is still valuable but not nearly as much as it was relative to other stats.
So, Swift Justice only reduces the cooldown of Judgement and not Crusading Strikes? Interesting.
Thanks.
This.
we’re basically saying the same thing but i once again have to clarify
this small “brick” is so small and insignificant that its removal wouldnt do much in the grandscheme of things. sure it brings it closer, but not in the way people here think. if anything its a QOL change to make the spec feel somewhat smoother.
haste would still be in roughly the same position as it is now, even in st.
Well, they apparently did reduce the icd to 0.1 in the patch notes, so it won’t work with empyrean legacy but it’s still an improvement.
Good.