Why does DPS think they have try to pull mobs off the tank?

The dps has always the option to leave if they are not happy

Iv’e seen so many wipes because of impatient dps who just wanted to go faster and faster but at the end we lost so much time running back to dungeon multiple times…

Calm down ya Boomer.

sorry gen x, the ones that implemented what you have now. We started with no comps, and gave you everything. Bow to me.

Of course it is. If you’re shifting to dps gear, you’re sacrificing and stripping down armor and avoidance(and I mean really… are you trying to add crit? Cause just lol) with the hope of increasing threat. I’m stating that you can boost your threat(particularly in rage generated from damage) simply by boosting your crit(without stripping stats). And part of that is use of the Agility Totem over Windfury.

Which means if you ever get more than what you think needs to be handled, its head between legs time. I’ve survived some pretty crazy **** as deep prot that would have flattened you into a pancake. At worst, I will take quite a few of them with me before I hit the floor.

Spoken like someone who doesn’t play Classic(even if you do). Any Warrior will tell you you will never have all the agro all the time in group. Other people can and do get hit. If they get hit less, they have to be healed less.

And I agree. But the seriously wrong problem here is WINDFURY totem instead of AGI totem. It artificially strangles rage gen, which in turn means less threat, which means less mobs hitting me, which means other people getting hit more. It still works, people don’t die, I can grab stuff before they do, you just have to med a lot more and lose the time you think you’re gaining.

Its hotdoggers thinking their personal big numbers matter, even if it destabilizes the group, to the point you have to med every pull. Hey… at least they can post that parse to polish their epeen with. The only thing they (and you) care about is big numbers at the expense of everyone else.

Try going AGI totem over Windfury some time while boosting your crit under shield(I don’t care if you’re a furry, this is in relation to prot tanks). The difference is striking. Windfury can and will destabilize your group by shifting the threat, while killing avoidance and crit. Its a tradeoff, and not a very good one.

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after reading most of your replies, you seem like the kind of player we usually end up kicking out of our group or guild because we get tired of the rtardness. lol!!!

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Blood Rage. Hit a critter. Use some bombs or Oil of Immolation.

There’s plenty of solutions, man.

True.

Eh. It’s all situational. There’s no set use for the ability. It depends on the circumstances. I personally just use it on cooldown to keep my rage up, and if it comes off cooldown between pulls, I use it to keep my rage high.

If I’m out of rage (or first pull), I obviously wait to use it until I’m in combat.

Actually, they didn’t nerf Battle Shout, and the Demoralizing Shout “nerf” was just a bugfix.

The fix for Battle Shout was causing the threat to be split between the mobs instead of applied as a flat value to all mobs with awareness of the Warrior.

That is to say, it was actually an effective buff to Battle Shout.

It’s actually not temporary. If you have any threat on the threat table, i.e. if you have done anything, taunt will generate threat to put you above the target.

Test this if you want.
Hit a mob with melee once.
Have someone cast a spell on it. Frostbolt, Shadow Bolt, etc.
Taunt the mob.
Once taunt fades, the mob will continue hitting you.

Your problem there is inviting Enhancement Shamans.

I’ve just not seen it being necessary, and that’s not just from my personal experience as a Feral Druid, either, but watching Warriors tanking.

Now if every DPS blasts a different mob with full-on single-target DPS, then you can start blaming the DPS.

Also…

My suggestion is to go Arms/Prot. Get Defiance to turn your 1.3x threat modifier into 1.495.

You can use Sweeping Strikes at the start, as well.

The only time I want people to hold back is if you’re moving mobs into position, like during an LoS pull. Beyond that, you just need to be the first one on the threat table and you should be fine.

From there, you just continue generating enough threat to keep aggro.

Aye.

I understand. That’s why I’m saying you don’t need to worry that much about DPS pulling aggro. Obviously you should strive to hold aggro, but if you lose a mob during an AoE pull because the Mage crit three times in a row with Arcane Explosion, it really doesn’t matter.

Between Taunt, stuns, slows, heals, damage reduction, and the much higher DPS, the damage taken will be very little.

Perhaps. I’m also full BiS for tanking gear and have most of my BiS threat gear.

When leveling, I was the one tanking, so I didn’t have a chance to watch any Warriors tanking, but since hitting 60, I’ve had the opportunity to see lots of other tanks, all of which have been Warriors, and they’ve not had issues.

If the issue is one that is more common at lower levels, I think the concern over losing aggro is even less justified, as the mobs in lower level dungeons are even weaker.

Jumping ahead to answer this, since it’s relevant to this point:

No.

Yeah. That one I totally agree with being the DPS’s fault.

With PUGs, that will always be the case.

Haha. “Pushing their views on everyone else,” as if me discussing things is somehow pushing my views.

At worst you can say I’ve been rude for calling people bad players when they refuse to hold aggro on a mob that a DPS pulls off them.

Maybe I’m just being too logical, but if the job of the tank is to hold aggro and they outright refuse to do so because the damage dealers are doing too much damage, I think I’m justified in calling them bad tanks.

The fact the DPS in my guild groups pull aggro more is because they’re not afraid to do their full DPS, and they know that me not having aggro for a brief second is not going to cause a wipe.

PUG Mage: crits with Frostbolt, pulls aggro
Tanks in this thread: WTF NOOB MAGE LEARN TO PLAY IDIOT, HEALERS DON’T HEAL THEM. LET THEM DIE. I’M NOT TANKING THAT MOB

Guild Mage: crits with Frostbolt, pulls aggro
Me: Taunts

PUG Mage: AoEs as fight starts
Tanks in this thread: OMFG THESE STUPID DPS!!! THIS ISN’T RETAIL, THE GOGOGO MENTALITY RUINS WOW.

Guild Mage: AoEs as fight starts
Me: Swipes
Guild Mage: pulls aggro, uses Frost Nova to keep mobs still
Me: Stays in melee so the only one in range is me, generating aggro via Thorns; continues Swiping

I appreciate that you’re willing to discuss things, even if we disagree.

Only playing devil’s advocate for this one, because I agree that DPS running away from the tank is dumb (unless they’re intentionally trying to hold aggro so they can kite the mob).

Intercept.
Hamstring.

Exactly why you can hold aggro despite DPS going all out.

Both of those classes are bad for DPS, though. Funny how that works.

I can’t help but laugh at the idea of a Shaman in a dungeon doing 150 DPS and still pulling aggro just because of the way their spells work and thinking “God, I’m so good at this game. Tank can’t even hold aggro on this.”

Then he pops a /flex.

Seriously, though, I understand your point, but all of the DPS complained about in this thread so far (Mages, Warlock, Hunters) do not have massive threat modifiers for their abilities.

Warlock generates the most threat of the three because it doesn’t have a threat reduction, but this is off-set by using DoTs to spread their damage out, which they’ll likely be doing on multi-target fights.

I agree. It’s not never the DPS’s fault.

Exactly. The tank also holds aggro.

Same goes for the tank if they’re not happy that the DPS are doing DPS.

I’m sure if the tank were actually good, that wouldn’t be happening.

Haha. “We,” as if you did anything.

You’re in the same arbitrarily defined generation as a handful of people who made tremendous technological advancements. Congratulations.

Okay, sure. I meant you don’t strip as in you don’t literally just take armor off.

Duh?

You can also boost it more with Windfury. Your argument in favor of Grace of Air was the armor and dodge that it gave to the DPS in the group.

Not really. The added damage mitigation hardly makes a difference in dungeons, even in the highest level ones available.

There’s never been a situation where I thought “I’d much rather have my mitigation gear on for this.” If anything, more mobs just means more DPS, and thus more threat, to me.

As Fury/Prot, you could easily just put on a shield if your damage taken is too high (which it arguably would be with several packs on you).

I’m not sure why you say that.

Do you think the DPS need to wear their tank gear, too, or something?

Duh.

They’ll get hit less if the tank holds aggro.

You use very odd terminology.

Alas, the “personal big numbers” is the only way to quantify their performance. It’s very rare, assuming they’re not ninja pulling extra packs and other stupid stuff like that, for higher DPS to destabilize the group.

And again, if the tank holds aggro better, the healer spends less mana having to heal the DPS. Slowing down the entire group just to accommodate a tank that can’t generate enough threat is not worth it.

Have to “med” (I assume you mean drink?) after each pull? Fine. That’s worth killing the mobs in 1/3rd the time because you can actually press your buttons instead of standing around so the tank wearing all of his mitigation gear generates enough rage after several seconds of fighting mobs to press a single Sunder Armor, only to lose aggro anyway because his threat generation is terrible and it doesn’t matter how long they wait when a single crit will pull aggro off him.

But don’t worry, Grace of Air Totem will save the day. Threat is a thing of the past!

???

How? It’s a chance to hit an extra time. How will one RNG mechanic somehow destabilize the group, but another RNG mechanic (crit chance) won’t?

Cool? Windfury doesn’t benefit Feral at all, so I’m obviously not talking about Feral.

I’m very concerned that a level 30 named Rekttum wants to kick me. /sarcasm

But if it makes you feel better to tell someone that you’d kick them from your group or guild because they have the audacity to suggest that a tank should hold aggro, you go right ahead.

I’ll keep tanking and actually holding aggro. You keep crying on the forums that the DPS are bad because they pull aggro off you. :slight_smile:

Bloodrage does more than just give you instant rage.

  • Each point of active rage-generation gives 5 threat. “Activate rage-generation” includes the Bloodrage ability, the Unbridled Wrath talent, the Improved Blocking talent, the Might 5/8 set bonus, and drinking rage potions but excludes rage generation from taking/dealing damage or being in Defensive stance. In general, if the amount of rage you are generating shows up in your combat log, it will generate threat. Once again, threat generation stops once you are at 100% rage.

Note: Warrior stances and the Defiance talent DO NOT modify threat generated from health-, mana-, or rage-generation. Drinking a rage potion for 50 rage will generate 250 threat regardless of what stance you are in!

Shoot a pack of mobs and los, cast bloodrage (50 threat instantly on every mob you are now in combat with, plus the additional rage over time also generating threat).

I’m aware.

But the amount of threat generated by Bloodrage is negligible compared to the amount of threat you could generate by having rage going into the fight.

What do you think is better?
Going into a fight with 0 rage and using Bloodrage
Going into a fight with 70 rage but not having Bloodrage

This is interesting, though. You’d think it would, due to its tooltip. I don’t know either way, so I’ll take your word for it.

Has nothing to do with good damage.
-Non-elites are non-threatening and the tank shouldn’t need to bother wasting effort generating threat on them beyond bunching them into a deathball if possible.
-Sometimes the tank has the completely wrong kill order.
-Sometimes the tank doesn’t generate as much threat as they think they do.

you got it all wrong my friend.

First: I am not suggesting that we kick people that have the audacity to say tanks should hold aggro (of course they should hold it duh)… I am talking more of attitude wise and your understanding/style of playing this game. I am sure you are the kind of tank who thinks he is god and blame the healer all the time. Or if you play dps/healer, you’re probably that guy that keeps saying to the tank he sucks all the time.

Second: I am not crying on forum about bad dps because I cant hold aggro… I am a dps on all my chars (warrior, paladin, mage, druid). I’ve been a tank or healer since the start of Warcraft and decided that in classic I will be a dps for a change.

You need to understand that there’s dps out there who just smash buttons and don’t understand what the hell they are doing or mass pull/pull more before the tank has time to do anything and creates chaos. Same thing goes for tanks. some are good and some bad. But you cannot say it is always the tanks fault

“Look at me, I am the Captain now” haha can’t help but to think of this movie when spamming my SB into your boss and making you clench your mouse whilst sweating tears of misery.

At lvl 23? i sometimes will grab the spare add and start fighting it in the hopes the tank and rest of the group can down the other fast and then proceed on mine.

Nobody said no to so far?

Blame the healer for what? I’m not the one having issues in my dungeon runs.

Even if there’s issues, I’ve already said:

I only blame myself, because I’m consistent in my belief that a tank losing aggro is the tank’s fault.

Okay, rephrase: you keep supporting tanks who are crying on the forums about DPS being bad because they’re incapable of holding aggro.

Oh, I definitely understand that. Those players don’t do enough DPS to pull aggro.

Except I never said that it was always the tank’s fault. I’ve made numerous exceptions to it being the tank’s fault, two of which are the exact situation you describe:

They would down the other mob faster if you were helping them kill it…

Yes, but the tank would be hit more often potentially stunned or worse, So i stun lock a mob while they fight the other.

Pro tip…we want to be hit by mobs.
You’re not helping by stunning mobs unless things are going south.

point taken!

lol!

Anyway, the most important thing is I have fun on my side and you have fun on yours

Sometimes, crit happens. And yes, I wait until the tank gets in at least 3 shots before I open up.
When I open up out of stealth, tigers fury then ravage, and it doesn’t crit I don’t tend to yank aggro.
It doesn’t happen ofton, but when it crits, It’s a massive hit and I will probably yank aggro. Then I have to cower and back off a bit.

Well, it seems I’m having more fun on my side than the tanks that can’t hold aggro.

I’m not the one making threads on the forums about having a bad time tanking.