Deathwing knew something we don’t.
Yes and no. Onyxia and her father before her did use it as a deception tool. But then you got dragons like Chromie who has used her visage form for a while before we see her in her dragon form (first time for us being Culling of Stratholme ending, for her it was way earlier). I wouldn’t describe Chromie using her visage in vanilla as ‘deception’ when she was fairly forward with being a dragon even back then.
And it gets even weirder when we have dragons who have had multiple visage forms over the years. Depending on what their motives are at the time. Such as Kairoz using a high elf in MoP then becoming a Mag’har orc in WoD only to be killed by Garrosh soon afterwards.
By deception, I also mean cases like Vaelastrasz. Would you feel comfortable talking to a monster with teeth as big as you are, or some guy in a robe. But the recent ingame cutscene, the Incarnates talking amongst themselves in humanoid form… why? Is being being in a visage their natural state?
Humans are mentioned in WOTA, but not in a flattering manner.
They’re mentioned before dark trolls become nelves.
Considering 100% of the playerbase of WoW is humans, and also 90% of the devs are human (10% are mechagnomes, true fact) I think it’s less of a lore choice but rather a convenience choice in design to make a big dragon relatable - when honestly we can relate to dragons in their natural form, and relate to people who don’t look like us.
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I know I’m very late for this discussion, but people here are saying that humans predate trolls? Excuse me? Please, show me exactly where Chronicles (unfortunately uncanon now) mentions it.
For what I read, humans came up as weak and “malformed” offsprings of the vrykuls, that is to say, after they were afflicted by the Curse of Flesh. The vrykuls would sacrifice them, but some of them felt compassion and just sent them from Northerend to the continent that would become the Eastern Kingdoms, where the humans formed tribes and eventually kindoms.
“Humans (collectively referred to as mankind or humanity) are a resilient species native to the world of Azeroth. Recent discoveries have shown that humans are descended from the barbaric half-giant vrykul of Northrend. Born “weak” and “deformed” as a result of the Curse of Flesh, they had to be exterminated to keep the vrykul race pure, but not all vrykul could bear to kill their children, and they took them away to a land far away from Northrend, in the northern Eastern Kingdoms.”
Note that Northrend and the Eastern Kingdoms are mentioned, which already places us in a time after the Great Sundering, which happened 15 thousand years ago.
I don’t know how people would think that they predate the night elves or even the trolls. It is said that trolls may have already existed even in the times of the Black Empire (which makes sense for me due to their appearance).
What we know of the night elves is that they came up at least 15 thousand years ago, literally evolving from nocturnal trolls by influence of the Well of Eternity (and perhaps Elune?). During that time, the Titans’ creations were dormant and afflicted by the Curse of Flesh. It’s possible that is was some time around this period that the vrykuls awakened, but it’s still so much later than the events shown in the flashbacks, which take place 20 thousands years ago, literally when the Draenei first fled Argus.
Of course people will try to sugarcoat another plot hole that Blizzard creates for not knowing their own lore or simply not caring. The only far fetched explanation would be that Nozdormu showed everyone from the dragonflights a vision of what some races would look like in the future and so they choose their humanoid forms. Anyways, it would be much more convincing if they used totally different humanoid forms, like those of the Primalists, or simply one that looks like the Titans (a mix of human, dwarf and vrykul, basically buffed humanoids with round ears and beards).
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IDK the exact dates of Neltharion becoming a titan infected dragon, and humans spawning from vrykul, but humans are older than night elves as a species.
No, man. They’re not.
Yeah, man, they are.
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He’s had a couple. The Visage form we’ve been seeing in flashbacks and his form as Lord Prestor which he took to work his subterfuge in the original Alliance. The reason he took the second one may have well been that the artifacts he used would not have fit his dragon form.
Mankind dates back to days of the early troll and the kaldorei empires. Kaldorei back then were fond of occasionally capturing humans and using them as slave labor.
Maybe Deathwing actually has a ‘Tiny Vykrul’ visage?
EDIT:
OH! More seriously, it’s a Titan Keeper Visage, just scaled down to match the other dragon’s primarily elven visages! The titan Keepers look much like burly humans, and were around WAY back when after all.
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I did some research and realized that there are some differences between the canon lore of the humans and the information from the Warcraft RPG, which is considered non-canon.
Some sources seem too mix information of the canon and the RPG, which leads to many inconsistences such as one describing the humans as being among of the oldest races of Azeroth and others describing them as the being among the youngest ones.
Up until the recent update of the character creation screen, the in-game description of the humans stated that:
“Humans are a young race, and thus highly versatile, mastering the arts of combat, craftsmanship, and magic with stunning efficiency. The humans’ valor and optimism have led them to build some of the world’s greatest kingdoms. In this troubled era, after generations of conflict, humanity seeks to rekindle its former glory and forge a shining new future.”
Since the new character creating screen and even the race description page from WoW’s website barely tells anything about the race’s history and only does a very brief summary of their current state and importance in the Alliance, I’ll assume that the old description (still present in Classic versions) is still canon. Therefore, I’m going to focus on the information from Wowpedia, because there it is well specified what is canon and what is not.
Canon lore
King Ymiron, the vrykul and the Curse of Flesh
King Ymiron was the leader of the vrykul before the Sundering, when they were still titan-forged iron.[2] Under his leadership the Dragonflayer clan finally gained the upper hand against its foes and in a coordinated offensive, the vrykul attacked and drove the jalgar into Kalimdor’s lush central forests. Yet on the heels of this victory, tragedy struck as the curse of flesh took another turn.
The curse started turning his metal people to flesh and blood, he blamed the titans, and then tried to purge the “weakness” from his own people.[2] Later, Dragonflayer women began giving birth to small, malformed children - a development that spread fear and superstition among the vrykul clans.
Some vrykul were disgusted by these “aberrations” and beseeched their ruler, Ymiron, to have them all killed, citing a need to keep the vrykul race pure; others pleaded with him to show them mercy, protesting that despite their weakness, these infants were still their children. Ymiron meditated on the issue for some time before reaching a dangerous conclusion: that because the titans had not come to aid them in their hour of need, and because the vrykul knew of no other beings with power on the same level as their gods, the curse must have been created by the titans. Although this was not the case, the vrykul believed it, and at Ymiron’s bidding they forsook their gods and titan worship was outlawed. Ymiron then took the side of those calling for the death of their malformed infants, and decreed that all parents with so-afflicted children must kill their young or be taken to Gjalerbron for execution.[3][2] While many obeyed Ymiron’s brutal orders, some could not and left the Dragonflayer with their children in tow.[4] Thus King Ymiron was indirectly responsible for the creation of what is now the human race.
Source: Wowpedia
Humans
At the dawn
The humans are descendants of the vrykul,[3] a seed race who worshiped their creators, the Titans, as gods. Around 15,000 years ago, the vrykul of the Dragonflayer clan believed that their gods had “abandoned” them, and a certain time after that, some of their children were born “weak and ugly.”[4] King Ymiron ordered all such children to be killed: the punishment for not doing so was that the child’s parents would be executed alongside them. Skadi the Ruthless, in a true act of depravity, earned his title by relentlessly hunting down such families.[5] Despite the risks however, not all parents obeyed this order and instead hid their children to grow up far away from Northrend.[6] Legends say it was Tyr, one of the Keepers, who brought the humans to their new home,[7] though the vrykul actually sent their offspring there because it was the location of Tyr’s tomb.[8] Regardless, his legend and symbol would haunt and inspire the humans forever after.
The elves of the Kaldorei Empire sometimes captured these nascent humans and used them as slave labor.[10]
Taran Zhu theorized that humans and possibly even some Zandalari may have sided with the pandaren in the pandaren rebellion 12,000 years ago.[11]
Source: Wowpedia
Non-canon (Warcraft RPG)
Humans
Introduction
Humans are among the oldest races on Azeroth, and their valor, optimism, and versatility have led them to build some of the world’s greatest kingdoms, dominating the continents of Lordaeron and Azeroth. With life spans generally shorter than the other races, humans strive all the harder to achieve great heights in empire building, exploration, and magical study.
Source: Wowpedia
History
Between the finding of magic from the Well of Eternity and the Great Sundering (approximately 14,000-10,000 years ago)[86] humans that were called humans (and not Azotha or vrykul) appeared.[87] They were nearly as savage as their foes among the trolls, and both groups wandered the land battling each other while trying to plant the seeds of their cultures.[86] The trolls actively hunted these humans.[88] These nascent humans saw the kaldorei as shadowy figures with god-like powers.[87] Centuries before the War of the Ancients, the bear Ancients Ursoc and Ursol, befriended many generations of humans and kaldorei and were beloved in return.[89]
When the night elves fought the demons during the War of the Ancients in their lands, the humans and trolls retreated deep into the wild.[86] Groups of endangered humans or night elves were guided away from the doomguard by Aviana disguised in mortal form.[90][13]
Source: Wowpedia
Some modern human females have retained the ability to turn their flesh to stone or steel in a similar way as dwarves, due to the human’s ancient connection with the titans. They believe that it was Khaz’Goroth who created them specifically.[95]
Source: Wowpedia
Azotha
The Azotha were an ancient race, mentioned in Lands of Conflict.
They were somehow connected to the titans, evidence of the titans is somehow related to the Azotha ruins in Stranglethorn Vale.[1]
The Arathi named the land of Azeroth as a whole in homage to their ancient ancestors.[3] This seems like it refers to the Azotha. If this is true, the Azotha were the ancestors of humans.
Source: Wowpedia
The Vrykul and the Azotha
As the vrykul are the ancestors of humans,[3] the Azotha are likely related to them. The Azotha may be vrykul, an intermediate race, or a tribe of early humans. This also connects the Azotha to the titans more clearly.
Source: WoWWiki
Conclusion
The biggest difference between canon and RPG seems to the Azotha (which are only mentioned in the RPG) and how old the human race are. In the RPG it is said that the Azotha were either vrykul, an intermediate race or even the first tribe of human, however, they seem to be not mentioned in any canon source. Also, the RPG states that humans are among the oldest races, while in the canon (in-game description) it is said that they are among the youngest ones.
However, in WoWWiki (which also uses the RPG as sources) it’s said that “humans are among the youngest races on Azeroth, but they make up for it by being the most populous”, so even the RPG information is kind of confuse and contradictory.
We can say that the human race is very old, but far from predating the night elves, who already possessed an incredibly powerful and solid empire when the vrykul were just beginning to be afflicted by the Curse of Flesh 15,000 years ago, with their women beginning to give birth to small and malformed (early humans) only some time after it.
The first humans probably already existed at least 12,000 years go, since it’s said that they may have sided with the pandaren in the pandaren rebellion.
The problem is that we see Neltharion in his human visage in the flashback cutscenes of the dracthyr, who were created and sealed away by Malygos in magical stasis 20,000 years ago, when the Kaldorei Empire perhaps didn’t even exist yet. I also remember a cutscene of Nozdormu in his high elf visage showing a vision to a dracthyr, though I don’t remember if this happened after or before they were awakened, when high elves, obviously, didn’t exist.
My theory is that this is obviously another mistake of Blizzard for not knowing (or not caring about) their own lore. But we can “pretend” that Nozdormu showed a vision of the most influent, powerful or beautiful futures races of Azeroth to his dragonflight fellows, thus allowing them to choose their visage. I think it’s… convincing?
As always, players have to create theories, excuses and explanations for Blizzard’s inconsistencies.
Chronicle states that humans have been around for fifteen thousand years, which is longer than night elves have existed. infact, it covers humanity’s birth before it covers night elves’ mutation from trolls.
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The biggest question is why is their visages elves when they wouldn’t have a frame of reference
Deathwing was pretty big to be fair. Maybe he was a beardless Vrykul xD
Crazy how much quicker elven society advanced, from that point of view. Well of Eternity was some powerful stuff.
Ye. Nelf fans are always say orc achievements don’t count because of demon blood, but everyone ignores that anything important that nelves did was accomplished strictly and only because of Azeroth’s blood being blessed by Elune.
“Human race” is cursed by Old Gods Vylkirs. So i doubt it.