The solution might be as simple as making it pay 2 win. falls on the floor laughing
Jokes aside, pvp in wow has pretty much always been pretty bad imo. I did have some fun back in vanilla and then I lost interest quickly over the next couple of expansions. There are just way better mmos out there with good pvp content.
Progression.
They have tried this before and it was severely disliked by everyone except top PvP:ers who complained that they had to get their initial set of PvP gear in the first season of an expansion.
It would likely kill off PvP completely. Because players can be categorized into three groups:
Casual queuers, casual players, and hardcore players.
The majority of the players on retail only use the queued systems and never touch M+, non-LFR, or premade BGs. But these are the players who fall into the category of “bread and circus” which essentially means that they play the game for fun and just need their “bread” to eat and “circus” to enjoy.
It is a pretty demeaning way to frame players but in general … folks don’t care. There’s an exceptionally small number of players that actually do care, and the majority of them are merely casual players. Some hardcore players but typically hardcore players exist within their own bubble as their interests in the game basically require them to be around other folks who want to push high keys to compete in the MDI or at least attempt to, be in the top 100 guilds to clear Mythic, and to get stupidly high ranks in PvP.
See above. The majority of players who play the game simply just play the game and don’t care about anything in the game except their own particular thing they wanna do.
Simple ideas are usually the worst ones, because … if they are that simple, what is it that one has overlooked?
I mentioned a few things above but this is far from everything. So that is why they haven’t implemented this “simple” idea, since it is a terrible one just by the very nature of it being very simple. This is a common problem have though since we have our biases towards ideas we propose ourselves, but in general… don’t accept simple ideas when implementing large systems.
They are almost always missing something, and if that is either a lot of things or something incredibly crucial … that’s when you manage to kill off entire games, or way worse depending on the situation where said simple idea was used.
How to vastly improve the pvp experience in a few simple steps:
1.) Get rid of level brackets. Everyone scales up to max level.
2.) Get rid of gear disparity. Make everyone the same ilvl no matter what they enter wearing. PvP should be based on skill, not ilvl.
3.) Reduce the bloat. Take a page from plunderstorm and give everyone 5 to 10 abilities unique to their class and balance around that.
I think a uncomfortable truth is that the majority of pvp players at the end of the day want to win more then having a fair fight.
Its why pvp gear has a progression system to start with. Most players want to absolutely crush one side. Rated isn’t popular because eventually you fight your mirror.
Honestly, I wish they’d make PvP into it’s own game mode kinda like they did with MoP Remix/Plunderstorm.
Completely overhaul the entire game world with PvP quests, replace all the NPC’s with NPCs that have player like AI… so killing NPC’s is a little more like PvP instead of standing around pushing 1,2,3,4. No bad RP questlines. Just go practice fight AI NPCs who are gonna simulate a PvP encounter… or fight other players for control over an objective.
Come up with COMPLETELY new talent trees/rework every spec to be purely PvP oriented – totally free of any influence from PvE/Raids/Dungeons.
Turn the whole world into a PvP lobby while people que up for BGs/Arena matches. Still have guilds/reasons to fly around the world. Make the Arena world like the Brawlers guild and slap it right out front of the major cities… and make it so people can que up and duel eachother inside it while everyone watches.
Add a ton of mounts/transmogs/titles that are only obtainable in that game mode… and make them usable in the PvE game mode (which should also get overhauled specs free of PvP influence)
There should still be gear progression though – but I’d squish the distance from the worst gear and the best gear by a good bit. It’s a little silly that a fresh 70 is like 1/5th of a geared player.
I think these are bad ideas that would have a very negative impact for PVP. I mean, #2 is pretty much templates which already failed the last time they tried them…
But I’m all for it. I think PVP has held back a lot of what Blizz can do PVE talent wise, so making it a completely seperate thing with its own pruned abilities would probably be great for PVE class design
My thoughts as someone who doesn’t pvp much.
If I do it’s a bg or two. I just want to go in and have fun. I don’t want to farm a second set of gear for a side activity. I know it’s controversial but Legion was the most fun I had in pvp.
Premades suck the fun out of the match as it’s a huge uphill climb to overcome that level of organization in a random environment.
The gear difference makes an impact especially if the luck of the draw doesn’t seem fit to give you an equal player on your side. The same goes for who has a healer and who doesn’t.
PvE and PvP have different rules for spells and abilities.
Finally as someone who just wants to hop in and play compared to PvE you have alternatives paths to get the gear so you can do the content. PvP you have to have gear to win to be able to get gear. It’s a continuous exercise in frustration.
I don’t have the time to grind for the gear just let me play.
Motivation is the seasonal rating, the high end rewards and the competition. Look at all the other games that don’t have that barrier to entry.
they did this in WoD and it was great , but you know the people that make this game have to try and reinvent the wheel every expansion so they dropped it.
They do have that… Yah you gotta get some honor to get the crappy gear, that literally takes less than a few days to get the full set, but it’s there…not sure how much easier they can make it. Kind of a odd post representing pvpers who are always the first people to claim to be the best players in that game.
I genuinely doubt this to be the case. Folks who engage in this behaviour would be folks who spend their time making alt-accounts and smurfing in other games (no idea how one would smurf in WoW though, although I suppose twinking might be it). And the reality is that this is a subset of players who is a TINY portion of the playerbase.
What you are describing is after all twinking, but… it has never been particularly popular. Yes it does exist but not as a norm. So I sincerely doubt this to be the case.
Overwhelmingly the folks who engage with WoW PvP as an activity are folks who do engage in rated PvP as their normal content though. Especially since folks who want to “crush other players” not only need the experience that playing against other players at that level gives, but also requires the gear to have a significant upper hand.
The gear progression in terms of PvP is largely there to facilitate a sense of meaningful growth of your character. Which is also the number one problem that people have raised in regards to it, and why PvP gearing is changing in TWW.
Hard disagree. Random battlegrounds are the most popular game mode. There seems to be more premade full glad geared teams in random battlegrounds then in rated battlegrounds atm.
Even my friend forces me into doing solo shuffles cause he doesn’t wanna play pvp with me if rating is on the line
Yep you see it all the time throughout wow now where results are more important than friendships or playing for fun.
It was the same with m+ for me and my buddy. He wasn’t capable of doing the same key levels as me so we just stopped playing together and he ended up quitting the game. I hated not playing with him but at the same time running keys 5+ levels below what I wanted to do to have to carry him just wasn’t fun.
They have made this game tough to play with friends unless you absolutely don’t care about progression, and while there’s some players that don’t, there’s a lot that do. At some point you and a friend will get to a point where you’re too different in skill level to both find enjoyment out of what you do together
all i wanted them to do for gear was get rid of the vault and they are doing that. Gear wasnt an issue in dragonflight. Just about every other aspect of Arena, solo shuffle was.
You don’t have to read the lore. Hop into the game, turn warmode on, congrats you’re pvp’ing.
This screams of “but why is the opposing faction always so much better than my own faction?”
Are there folks who run premade teams in random BGs? Yes.
Are they the norm? No.
Saying “There seems to be more [of X]” is a fallacy. I can say that there seems to be more penguins who dress up in fine clothes than before, and all I need to “prove” my point is reference a single time when it happened. So Mary Poppins proves that there “seems” to be more finely clad penguins dancing for movies.
Just because one can frame something through an incredibly biased and personal lens where we just say “it seems like X” doesn’t make it so. And I also recommend against using this logic because this is the sort of logic that leads to unwarranted conspiratorial thinking. This is a WoW forum so it is hardly something as serious as that but, the mere existence of something somewhat relevant or related in one aspect doesn’t mean it can be extrapolated to every aspect.
Random BGs are the most popular PvP game mode, yes.
Because random people can queue for it, and that’s all it tells us. Nothing else.
I mean your argument is " well we can’t prove it so I must be right" isnt all that convincing.
Its the whole reason why pvp has progression.
Id hang on to see whats in store for pvp. Theyve been changing big things once an expansion. Solo Shuffle. Now Blitz. Its getting better.
BGs are the future. And it seems like theyre heading on that direction. If they can crank out 5 new maps on the next two years you’ll see it blossom.
BGs are forgiving. Theyre fun. And they let you play your toon. Gear is better now. And they renoved the vault so things are going in the right direction.
My argument is this:
What you are saying is this:
Which reads as “Most people engaging in PvP want to smurf in games.”
To which I then responded with this:
I actually backed up my claims with examples, I’m not making a claim that I has to be right - just that Blizzard has tried this in the past and it wasn’t well received, and the only thing I can think of that even remotely resembles what you are talking about is twinking … which isn’t a common thing to do.
You then mentioned “There seems to be more of X” which is just a random assertion of yours not backed up by reality. Only baseless feelings that very much so resemble the same thing folks on both the Horde and Alliance say in that “Our faction always loses” which is a very common thing for folks to say when they are in a losing random BG.
If you think a random baseless assertion that is entirely driven by biased feelings is better than actual examples… I don’t think there’s much more point in talking with you.