We have fewer tools now than ever before. I don’t love TBC but I’d take that iteration over anything that happened Legion and onward…
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That’s a really bad example to use. Just because something is possible to do doesn’t mean it’s good.
You could take the worst spec in the game right now and get 2400 but that doesn’t mean it’s a good spec. It’s really cringe seeing people resort to this logic when it’s just wrong, I get you’re a fan of Combat but that doesn’t make it good.
Combat is just a victim of Blizzards awful balancing, even thought they’re picking the most balanced TBC patch the spec is still garbage, nothing is going to change that unless they stick to their Some Changes motto and buff the weaker specs.
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Combat in TBC, is actually decent, I know you don’t think so but oh well.
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Saying the class felt solid during Vanilla compared to now is always weird to me. Compared to other classes during Vanilla it was by far the best but compared to now? 
You’ll kill a boss pressing ~30 Sinister Strikes, 2-3 Eviscerates and 4-6 Slice and Dices with a few tiny variations depending on the boss. This is so slow and boring, there is no player skill in the rotation at all. 
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I was talking about PvP. PvE wise though, I do not enjoy the carpal tunnel piano of today. It isn’t engaging or fun and only distracts you from fight mechanics.
Not to mention that things like threat or cleaves are mostly gone, and consumable management was removed.
Has nothing to do with what I think, I remember from experience and having recently done plenty of research for Classic TBC my memory was correct.
The only good spec we have for TBC PvP is Sub and the class as a whole is not good for PvE.
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If you dont manage your energy wisely, watch your energy regen timing, then sure it would feel bad.
Not even close, Warrior and Mage are worlds better classes in a lot of ways. Rogue is only more fun.
And that would be flat 100% wrong.
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I do miss energy ticks.
During late vanilla though, it was warriors and warlocks on the top and rogues in the middle of the pack.
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Honestly, there may have been less tools but at the same time that’s when race/class combos actually meant something in this game. The game felt like it actually had a personality among the classes.
To say TBC and skill don’t mix. That’s like saying that in retail currently as well when it’s more so number/simming crunching and having guides at their disposal for telling you how to play your class with a certain amount of broken and non-talents because one theory crafter “tested it out”; You had more chance of customizing to your own playstyle in TBC.
See this right here is the typical mind set of players nowadays in which you can’t be different at all anymore without someone belittling you in your decision on why you chose something you have fun with. The whole point of the game is to have fun in which this game completely lost that luster in that area.
I have no idea where you think combat was total cringe, it was one of the top 3 damage dealing specs in the game if not first during that time. I never got out damaged when I was combat.
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Unless I am crazy, I don’t believe it does. Shadowstrike deals physical damage and thus is reduced by armor. We do have Find Weakness allowing us to ignore 30% of armor. But, 30% doesn’t mean a Warrior goes from 40% damage reduction to 10%. It’s 30% of the 40% which is 12%. So, they still have 28% damage reduction.
Also, Shadow Blades is only 30% in PVP. So, if Shadowstrike hit for 1000, Shadow Blades will hit for 300.
No.
/10char
No it is correct. Besides trying to gimmick fan of knives wound poison spam and gimmick mace stun gambling there is no reason to not go hemo. Shadowstep was sub specific back then, cheat death was sub specific, prep was sub specific. Sub had better stealth levels, better stealth detection, lower cooldowns on blind / vanish and excellent pressure where it could actually be played similar to a warrior in 2s and win by pressure with a healer.
If you choose to give all of that away to try some cheese mace stun or lol mutilate then be my guest but to pretend that sub rogue wasn’t the best melee in the entire game during BC just clearly shows you are very inexperienced and misinformed.
I was referring to class design in Vanilla, Rogues were by far the best among all the classes imo. I wasn’t even talking about their damage.
Combat was legit in BC.
Too many don’t remember. Assassination was also legit in BC.
Sub in BC was legit too.
Thinking one spec was vastly better than the other is wrong. That is why BC and WotLK are highly regarded.
Yes Combat and Assassination in BC are really good. Sub relied more on having to keep Expose Armor and Rupture at all times in arena mirror matches. This is because outside of Cold Blood usage Sub wasn’t doing that much damage. Sub was more about layering finishers like Rupture, Eviscerate and Expose Armor. Think of BC Sub as the precursor to what you see with Sub in Cata that had stronger finishers. And only in Cata did you see Sub with Hemo doing a lot of damage.
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Even though Rogue is my favorite class by any measure it’s hard to say that it’s the best design in Vanilla. Warrior, Mage, Hunter and Druid are all very unique. Let’s ignore tuning and just compare them more fairly, these classes have answers for most of their problems in unique ways and like the rogue don’t have answers for all the problems they face in PvP. Even if warriors were tuned more reasonable to be on par with other classes in terms of damage and burst, they would still be the absolute Kings of melee in team fights because their ability to pressure the enemy while also retaining honestly the best melee class mobility next to Druid and wear plate, swap from 2 hand to sword and board and use of battle, zerker and defensive stance in addition to AE fear(cd), PH(talent) and mortal strike(talent) and hamstring, it’s actually a sweet design. IMO rage is also a really cool way to handle resources. That’s just barley scratching the surface, there is so much to Warrior play that you don’t see on Classic because most of the players don’t know much about the class because it’s so over tuned that it ironically holds them back in terms of player development.
Mage, Hunter and Druid are also very interesting classes and truly well designed if you ignore glaring tuning issues.
Even looking at Rogues resource design we had the best and most in-depth at the time. A dual system with Combo and Energy was far more enjoyable than spamming Frostbolt an entire fight.
Even though most classes only pressed one and occasionally 2 or 3 buttons during their rotation, this includes Rogues. I felt like it got the most love from the Dev team and was the most satisfying.
Rogues in PvP easily took the most skill and I don’t think anyone would argue that. (Ignoring Rogues who camp low level clothies and one shot them with Ambush of course) Timing your CC and Energy ticks took more skill than Mages or Warriors could ever hope for at the time, was the only class who could win duels nearly naked and beat AQ40 geared players.
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Oh you’re taking about PvE in Classic, yeah rogue is the only way to go there because of debuff limits totally make it stupid boring for most other classes excluding feral cat and fire mage, tho fire is only really good for ZG, AQ and Naxx, so like half the game =\
I was in the above post taking about PvP, the classes are actually overall really good excluding paladin and shaman because those two are incomplete classes even if they can both global you in PvP.
Regarding even rogue in classic, there is depth in ways that aren’t expressed in retail, but specific classic rogue PvE rotation in 40 players content is nothing all that interesting at the core due to debuff limits.
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Rogue design is so good that DKs, Monks, etc all utilize it in some fashion.
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yeah it was really a solid design, but the Paladin Cata clone was a really bad rip off version and super dumbed down. (combo points stacking on the player, not the target)
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