adding a second runeforge seems like the most sense…leave MotFW as the KM proc buff… the hard hitting obliterate comes from the fact that its hitting wiht a single hit 2h rather than split into 2 seperate 1h hits (so a 10k crit for 2h vs 2x 5k crits dw) and then we get all the benefits of running RI and FC and can play BoS too.
Apparently the volume of numbers does matter or else people wouldnt be pushing what they perceive as a slower option with fewer harder attacks.
No another runeforge would not help Blood if Blood could DW, because it didnt help when you could do it. It fell flat on its face because Blood didnt have access to a deep frost talent that has since been baked into the spec. Threat of Thassarian which allows both weapons to strike when using strike abilities. That was things like Obliterate, Blood Strike, Rune Strike, Frost Strike, Plague Strike. Just because you have the option to do it doesnt mean that its going to be good.
Why is this thread even a thing, people arent getting DnD resets?
You might not like it as with many others, but Frost is a DW spec and has been.
MotFW (the Obliterate damage increase) is basically the “second” runeforge for 2h Frost along with increased KM weight to normalize the difference between it and 2h.
Truthfully, I think 2h portion of MotFW should also affect Frostscythe and Frost Strike. Especially Frost Strike, a staple in our abilities which is really lackluster right now.
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What do you think would happen to Obliterate if you added more abilities that are boosted from MotFW? More abilities being buffed would most likely bring down the % overall to the point that it should have just been RI given and not split the spec at all.
Well, given DW has FC that affects all abilities in contrast to 2h affecting only strictly Obliterate and is more concentrated than DW is right now. I think it’s fitting to make 2h scale with basic abilities like Obliterate, Frost Strike, Frostscythe (If allocated) and perhaps Glacial Advance (Should it becomes an AoE RP spender) better than DW where DW can focus on also scaling RW, FWF, CH, and Rime/HB on top of the 4 said basic abilities.
Right now, I’m a firm believer that Biting Cold RW is the strongest build for Frost in PvE content.
A long time ago you could DW as blood. The best combo was Stats on one hand and Fallen crusader on the other.
What kills me is the random casters, that have casts that you can interrupt with mind freeze, but gripping them 20 yards doesnt interrupt the cast???
Looking at you collector in HoA, wtf is this even.
Yeah the cooldown management makes it feel like you have some ownership of your time to live. But bone stacks and marrowrend does feel bad, just like stagger brew did. Maybe time to streamline that mechanic?
The rune torghast power feels pretty good when you get it. Wonder if we could consolidate some runeforges and try and balance them a little bit.
FC is just such a silly good effect.
I really don’t like how str proc heavy the class can be between specs. UH dom socket, FC, some in use trinks, str pot, pillar (frost) just leads to a very swingy play style. Would prefer they pull back on this stuff honestly.
Yeah its pretty funny swinging between 1429 str and 4105 str. This is fine.
You didnt answer the question.
Or I should say what do you think would happen to Obliterate % increase from MotFW if you add more abilities to MotFW?
Why are people asking for Heart Strike to just hit 5 targets? Sounds like people cant handle dropping DnD and keeping up a disease for Crimson Scourge. It would be like people in Wrath saying “why do I have to keep up diseases just make Obliterate hit 30% harder”. Its removing skill for the sake of what?
I don’t think blood strike should hit 5 targets.
But blood could use some more AoE damage/threat.
The more abilities to be included from MotFW, the more abilities will compete against Obliterate. Obliterate would pretty much stay the same. Relatively.
As for Heart Strike… I kinda find maintaining Bone Shield a maintenance that you’ll otherwise get squashed. But I think that’s just what Heart Strike does. Personally, I think it’d make Heart Strike way too good if they just made HS hit 5 targets on the get go. It is the most RP efficient single rune spender Dks have.
Yo, that’s an old ability.
The more abilities added to MotFW the lower the % increase will be where you get to the point where you might as well have MotFW give one of the main runeforges. You cant have everything be at 30% and expect balance to not come into play.
I don’t think anyone is disagreeing HS is the preferred RP build when we have the choice. The problem is 3-4 GCD to start rolling aoe threat that doesn’t build enough RP for a single DS.
Dnd as I’m running up (10 RP)
Blood boil to start rolling diseases
Marrowrend for some bone shield stacks (30 RP)
Heart strike (probably 46ish RP)
Death strike (0 RP)
By now I’m 3 seconds into the pull with probably 3 runes up and getting tunneled by mobs. Without a CD I have to dump those 3 runes into HS to get enough RP to DS back what I’m losing. If I do that, I’m down to one charge on bone shield.
Obviously, once you start rolling past the initial pack it’s not an issue. HS hitting 5 targets does nothing to the above really because I’m walking into a DnD cleave situation. If you take dnd out of the above, all I’m losing is threat for a rune on pull. If we let HS hit 5 targets we get to keep up some damage numbers (threat) without making us insane. I rarely find myself outside dnd windows when I’m above like 3 mobs.
I don’t see how removing this functionality from Hs and DnD makes us over the top and I don’t see how leaving it in adds a satisfying layer of gameplay. It’s needless complexity in probably 40-50% of the time when you’re hitting HS outside of a boss fight.
This is almost entirely in context of trash, because bosses rarely go over 2 targets.
Wdym?
I just proposed 2h portion of MotFW should also affect FS, FScy and GA.
How does that % increase be lowered exactly?
Why would the % not be lowered? Its like people being confused on why Obliterate was “nerfed” in beta when KM rank 2 was introduced.
Thats how balance has to be done. The more you add to MotFW the lower that % increase would have to be lowered for balance. You cant keep adding more abilities to be an increase of 30% damage and not change anything about that 30% increase. If you add more to it, just give 2h one of the main runeforges instead of increased Obliterate damage. Quit beating around the bush and just fix the thing.
Guess I’ll continue pumping with RW I guess… lol.
EDIT: By the way, Frost Strike does 30% increased damage in PvP. I’m just saying that it’d be nice if that was a MotFW buff for 2h.
Besides, FC just scales with well… everything else.
Yes, Frost Strike gets a boost in pvp, for everybody. So why take something that is for everybody and then just make it for one weapon set in pve? Even though it wouldnt be exclusive to pve and the Frost Strike increase in PvP would boost the Frost Strike increase from MotFW.
If people are for balance then why keep trying to funnel everything into 2h? Why not just make the weapons stat sticks so you can balance the spec against others. It looks like what I said over a year ago is still holding true, this whole type of design is a bad idea and 2h was removed for a reason. People are showing that it just doesnt work well with still asking for 2h buffs while others are saying its 1% behind DW in both BoS and Obliteration.
So if it is 1% behind then people just want 2h to be better so DW is removed for some reason, at least thats the feeling i get from all these “buff 2h” comments, or its not actually 1% behind and 2h needs buffs just to catch up to DW and in needing to catch up the spec has to be held back because the way 2h is implemented makes it hard to actually balance.
It just makes absolutely no sense at all. None what so ever.
Yea… Whatever you say I suppose.