I think certain fans have latched on the Void’s “truths” about the Light to validate their doubts and desires lol
The statement half-truths is only conditionally correct, the void tells you ALL truths…just not all happen in your timeline or to put it mildly apply as the void had foreseen. Because as I said, they consider all possible potential futures to be completely 100% true.
Half-truth I find therefore somehow the wrong word, since it happens somewhere quite so as it has said the void, the void only does not know itself in which “present” it is at the moment.
1 Like
I don’t know if any of that makes sense. I don’t think there is a connection between the End Time and the Dreadlords. The Dreadlords don’t seem to have any real beef with the Old Gods. Other than Mal’Ganis snd his love/hate relationship with Arthas we really don’t have much to go on when it comes to the Dreadlords plans with the void.
Why would Mal’Ganis work against the Jailer if he was the true master?
For all we know the Dreadlords find a kinship with the Void.
Depends on where it goes. The easiest way IMO to explain the thing would be with the timeline stuff.
Nozdormu supposedly knows the future events, so somehow those things are pre-defined, at least in some big strokes. So, knowing where the things are going is not quite some random talking that exists just to sound cool, but in the WoW universe it seemingly is the case that something guides the events in a certain direction.
When in comes to Light, their only agents that we saw so far, are naaru. And they do not transcend the timelines. So, them seeing only 1 path could mean that naaru might be only aware of how, whatever is the force that did it originally, their own timeline was shaped to flow.
At the same time, Old Gods as example of Shadow related creatures are described as “They do not die; they do not live. They are outside the cycle”. Which might very well mean that they see all the timelines.
I did not read the Shadows Rising book so far (english version), but supposedly the Void can find out deception in others. Plus, from their PoV the outcome of the events that will happen is inevitable, so I am not even sure if the void have much reason to lie other than to consume more souls. And even then to what degree would those thing be lies - not sure.
The story that the devs want to tell you is that you should not trust them.
However, it’s not that simple, since even the apotheosis of zealotry, Xe’ra, was perfectly capable to change some of her decisions and adapt to the events happening. Which should not even be a thing if this “1 true path” would be specificly about inability to divert from that path, or accept alternatives. (aka IMO that interpretation would not work given the actual events that happened).
to go back to the original question.
I think that Locus Walker attempts to manipulate Alleria. Things that he does and says, are those that push her in a very specific direction. And if she would be convinced that Locus Walker is trust worthy, she might ignore the warnings, until it’ll be too late.
Xa’atath:
- He flaunts his defiance of the shadows. Arrogance will be his undoing. (at Locus-Walker)
- This one shows promise. The whispers lure her toward her fate. (Alleria at the Seat of the Triumvirate)
- The caterpillar has become the butterfly. She is all but ours now. (after L’ura’s defeat, when Alleria absorbs her power)
Arguably way too bloated without going enough in any of the story line.
What could possibly go wrong 
gl hf
Perpetual cliffhangers exhaust people too. So it’s not 1 suze fit all. Chapters of a story need some structure too.
Hooks from the past are not enough to be a good set up for the events.
Lack of closure (even it is entermediate) also leads to dissatisfaction of a significant part of the prayerbase (or so it seems).
Things can’t always stay somewhere on the background till the devs decide to use them, as it is a path to breaking the suspension of disbelieve (which would arguably be the biggest sin of any story).
So, timing and context are relevant IMO.
Yeah, it took only 16 years to address the Marnkrik’s wife story.
gl hf
Yes, this could easily be explained by having “fate” as an immovable force in the Universe, which challenges the idea that we have ultimate free will.
Knowing they are currently setting up the story to have Sylvanas play up this idea that we don’t have free will against fate, it’s a possibility.
The story is told through a Titan PoV, that was confirmed by both Ion and Steve at the 2019 Blizzcon. And between the Algalon fight dialogue, and the vision Thrall has in Charge of the Aspects when he speaks with Deathwing (as an agent of N’Zoth) it seems like the Titans are not to be trusted and have not been forthcoming with us about the origin of Azeroth and thier own goals.
The story is saying “don’t trust the Old Gods” from the Titan PoV but the story is also saying “don’t trust the Titans, they are lying to you.” And it’s hard to tell which side we should trust.
Hence why it goes back to… can we trust the void to understand the truth the Titans may be trying to hide? Should we give them the benefit of the doubt of they present truths that may conflict with what we already assume to be true?
The “lies” im referring to is the suggestion that Azeroth was a failed Titan experiment
it was originally a void planet the Titans terraformed and they have abandoned her to become void infested so Aman’thul can turn her into a super weapon. And the implications that this is not the first world the Titans have ruined/destroyed and the Titans would “bathe worlds in the Makers flames” not caring if life was killed in the process.
She also says in the Awakenings quest
When our work is complete, I will be lost to the Great Dark.
Funny enough, void does not tell us that thing. That’s the info from Locus Walker. Closest to the Void PoV on the topic would be
Xal’atath:
I know the naaru consider us horrors to be resisted. We do not share this view. They are merely beloved brethren that lost the true path. They will return to their masters… in time. (in Netherlight Temple)
And she says similar things like 3 or 4 times after it, during the BfA quest line.
From the days of Classic titans are more or less in the “who knows why are they doing what they are doing” camp. There are some “kind of answers” like with the Old Gods, but at the same time Tribunal of Ages made by the titan-forged call OGs “symbiotic infection”, and “Azeroth suffered infection by parasitic necrophotic symbiotes” which is by itself a contradiction (dead Light? parasites? symbiotes?) So, even those answers were shady.
IMO at best one could try to pull someone from Void, like Xal because if the outcome is inevitable, what would one lose from aiding us? But overall, I am not sure if there is a consistent answer.
Best we have overall is that the player character can have both Mark of Xe’ra and Gift of N’Zoth. So, maybe that would work out somehow?
Conceptually we could give everyone benefit of the doubt and eventually fall back to being allies to some kind entity that seeks the balance, since the balance is what prevents the universe (multiverse?) from collapsing. (supposedly)
Anything could be. According to Chronicles, Azeroth was “void infested” for who knows how long. It even describes how it affected Azeroth (spoiler: it didn’t):
It was during his long and lonely journeys that Aggramar sensed something extraordinary: the tranquil dreams of a slumbering world-soul, billowing across the cosmos. The song of life led him to a world that the Pantheon had not yet discovered, a world they would later name “Azeroth.”
Nestled within the world’s core was one of Aggramar’s kin—one far more powerful than any yet encountered. The spirit was so mighty that Aggramar sensed its dreams even through the din of activity that rattled across the world’s surface.
Yet as Aggramar drew closer to Azeroth and beheld the world, horror seized him. Void energies shrouded the world’s surface like a layer of diseased flesh. From the ruined landscape rose the Old Gods and their Black Empire. Miraculously, the nascent titan’s spirit remained uncorrupted, but Aggramar knew it was only a matter of time before it succumbed to the Void.
gl hf
When you talk about the contradiction of light death symbiotes that kind of makes sense. There’s a questchain in Stormsong that calls Azeroth an unholy syzygy of Light and Void and her awakening will destroy the universe.
Almost like a bastardized creation by law should not exist as both forces are in conflict or by the very definition a true neutral.
1 Like
Being conditional correct is literally what a half truth is. Even the idea that “hey this happens in an alternate timeline” and ommiting saying it is something that happens in an alternate timeline is an attempt to decieve and makes it q “half-truth”.
Also the idea that “everything is true” devalues the way we actually precieve reality and effectively makes it an opinion of the true, as oppose to hard unchanging facts.
1 Like
Could you tell me what is this quest? I only saw one mention of this word, and the quest “A Mote of Cosmic Truth” does not mention Azeroth afaia.
gl hf
That’s the quest. “Mote of cosmic Truth” it’s a well chosen name.
It does not mention Azeroth by name no, but the whole thing references the mote of cosmic truth in the greater cosmic scale. I have more time to explain late, I can expand upon this.
Are you sure it talks about Azeroth and not that summoned tentacle face?
I mean maybe it’s related to
Voidborne Ascendant says: [Shath’Yar] There is a great and terrible truth at the beginning of all things. I am its herald. Listen to my sermon, and know your infinite inconsequence.
But I am not sure how to tie it to Azeroth. Would’ve been an interesting turn of events if it is.
It seems like they just got to some old god servants the process. At least that’s an easy interpretation. By I am curious to learn how you connected it to Azeroth.
gl hf
I can explain.
“We stand on the brink, you and I. The final act looms over us, casting a terrible shadow. Deep we plumbed, seeking knowledge of the world. Deeper still we delved, until our fate was inevitable. Minds were shattered, my comrades ran screaming into the night. We are all lost, to that terrible Thing…Now, the malformed syzygy beckons. Complete the ritual and bring about the end.”
syzygy means a conjunction or opposition, especially of the moon with the sun. The malformed syzygy could refer to Azeroth as a syzygy of Light and Void. The passage about delving into the deep places and coming out mad. The Tauren creation myth of An’she (the Sun) Mu’sha (the moon) talks about how Azeroth corrupted the early Tauren the closer they got to her core. Dwarves as well have a similar narrative. Syzygy (astronomy), a collinear configuration of three celestial bodies. Like The Sun, the Pale Lady and child, a literal trinity in the sky.
We know that Shadow is the meeting point between Light and Void. If Azeroth is corrupted by either force she would destroy the known universe, the balance is key. She needs to maintain this balance of Shadow. It’s interesting that Gul’dan’s Shadow Council knew this truth and that knowledge was passed on to humans and Forsaken through Nathalie Saline and her teachings, which were outlawed on Azeroth and the mages of Dalaran tried to squash any comprehension of Azeroth’s real truth, because it lead to madness and for these people to join N’zoth, claiming they have seen the truth, and think N’zoth will show them the true path.
Deathwing was one of those who fell into N’Zoth’s trap. He said that when the Titans granted him the power to be Azeroth’s heart as the Earth Warden he felt Azeroth’s pain and suffering but also her torment. He describes her as being a failed Titan experiment and they just abandoned her. There’s a lot of implications to old God Whispers, like thier “many truths”
This one “he draws his strength from the Earth, Our Earth, our strength.” Has multilayered connotations. Him, can be Deathwing, Thrall, Magni or all of them simultaneously as they all have carried the burden of being tethered to Azeroth, and carrying her heart. The Tauren have a myth that the Shu’alo fell from thier peaceful nature because they began to dig deeper into the ground, dwarves, trolls, troggs and Kobald all have this same myth. The closer they get to Azeroth’s core the more inclined to savagery and war they become.
We assume Azeroth is goodsnd must be protected at all costs, we don’t assume Azeroth is savage and that’s the truth the mote of cosmic truth tries to convey. She is as much of the void as she is of the Light, she may not even be a true Titan, but a First One.
The reality is that Azeroth is the universe, or a macrocosm of the universe. There’s this weird line in the Velen short story that says “each person a universe” and that stuck with me, and shapes my interpretation. Azeroth is both Shakti and Perusha and that’s evident in her being based on the Lovecraftian Aza’thoth.
World of Warcraft is a love letter to H.P Lovecraft and it’s an attempt to expand upon Lovecraft’s unfinished works. Shadowlands is an homage to Dream Quest of the Unknown Kaddath and it’s part of a larger remaingining of Lovecraft’s mythos. Stormsong Valley was a huge zone that played into these themes often had tongue in cheek jokes about being inspired by Lovecraft.
1 Like
We’ve known since Azeroth was introduced as a titan that the Void Lords wanted to make her a Void Titan to unmake the universe. The idea that the Light has the same goal for itself is a fan theory without evidence.
A lot of your interpretation reads like you want the setting to be Lovecraftian rather than it actually being Lovecraftian. It has elements derived from Lovecraft, but that doesn’t mean World of Warcraft is the new Yogg-Sothothery.
Actually I’ve put a lot of thought into this and it’s not a one off theory. I have actual evidence.
It’s clear that the writers of World of Warcraft have a great deal of knowledge on Lovecraft’s reach in popular science fiction. World of Warcraft is based on one of Lovecraft’s unfinished novels called “The Dream Cycle” or sometimes just called “Dream Cycle” the novel is about a world that exists inside the mind of a sleeping Old God, specifically an outer God named Azathoth… yes, spelled very similar to Azeroth. That’s not where the similarities end though. Within the Dream cycle there is a realm called The Dreamlands.The Shadowlands could be in part related to Lovecraft’s Carter stories, most notably the short story titled The Dream Quest of the Unknown Kadath, which shares notable details with Shadowlands such as number of zones, to the City of Secrets, to even a connection to the Moon.
There’s also an Easter Egg in Shadowlands confirming this connection in the Ardenweald Campaign play, when the director messes up Azeroth’s name in a clear slip of the tongue, talking about the drama unfolding on “Azathoth” then they correct to Azeroth. It’s these little things that really fascinate me as the writers of this narrative leave a lot of clues in game about the pop culture references that shape this game and this is no different, this interested me when they announced Shadowlands in 2019 when they explained that everyone has a different reality in the Shadowlands and the Shadowlands can change to suit the nature of what is needed at the time, that’s how they explained the formation of the zones.
The lore implication that the Shadowlands may be up to personal interpretation as it’s connected to the Dream. The idea that dreams can shape our outer reality is a very deep, interesting and complex. I hope it is further explored in Shadowlands. If someone had the power to change reality to suit one’s will then the battle to have that type of control over Azeroth is worth fighting for.
It’s why the Old Gods have been fighting to control the Emerald Dream. The Emerald Dream is key to corrupting Azeroth. If the Emerald Nightmare succeeds the Old Gods win. That’s why the Emerald Nightmare in Legion wasn’t just a one off dungeon. the novel Stormrage foreshadowed not only the Night Warrior ritual but also the Night Elves eventual confrontation with Death and why Tyrande and Sylvanas needed to be enemies in the first place…
…but yeah sure. I guess your opinion, Thadeus, is law or whatever.
No, Murozond wanted the Hour of Twilight to succeed because he believed it was the better alternative than what the “true end time” was. He even says that the Hour of Twilight is a blessing. The End Time dungeon is the What if scenario where Deathwing succeeds in ushering in the Hour of Twilight. Which was why Murozond was blocking his past, uncorrupted self from stealing the Dragon Soul from the WoTA.
Thank you for bringing this to my attention I thought I knew Chronicles and Dawn of the Aspects. I may need to re-evaluate.
Are you going to reply to every one of my comments? You made your point.I know you are mad about my comments in another thread. It’s okay.