Why do you not like 1.12?

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
21

Cross realm BGs, severely changed AV.
IMO something in between of 1.4 and 1.10 would be a better reference point for Classic than 1.12 that already was almost TBC with all its paradigm shifts.

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22
  • Most of the progressive feel of the game will be stripped out, since 8/9 classes will have gotten a major QoL update.
  • Threat changes, in general, were progressive making the game easier over time. Being threat capped should be a thing, otherwise dps is just mashing buttons.
  • t0.5 armor turned non-set piece dungeons into a ghost town.
  • A version of AV where two armies take a wide berth around each other on the field of battle and just race to see who can clear to, and kill, the opposing general first.
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23

Wait…were gonna have cross realm bgs? I wont be playing if thats the case :frowning:

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24

In the first place, this entire project is already something that never existed. It’s based on the original version but can never actually be it. As long as it preserves the original philosophy with as close as they can get to identical game play I’m personally fine with it.

One of the main reasons for the AV changes stated by Kern was something about how they didn’t think players enjoyed having so many NPCs in them, who knew MOBA would be a thing? But many players preferred the original version, even if it took days to win/lose. The newer version (as it is on live) lacks the soul that the original had, it stopped being a huge battle and became more of a race to the finish. Does it need to be exactly like the 1.4 version? Not really, but as long as it retains a similar feel and less of the race to kill it’d do fine.

The threat issue is that by 1.12 it had already started getting easier to hold agro, which defeats the entire purpose of threat in the first place. Threat was there specifically to force the DPS to pay attention to the fight and not just their rotation, it also allowed tank skill to shine. To that end, they could simply tune bonus threat from SS and then ramp it back up when Naxx actually gets released (which was when they made the change in the first place).

And cross realm anything needs to DIAF, sure it helped people get into games faster but it also removed a lot of the opposite faction identity. Before cross realm, you would generally learn the names and relative skill level of both the players on your team as well as the opposite faction. If you ran dungeons or pvp’d while leveling up you may even already know some of the people enough to begin forming friendships.

Cross-realm increases the player pool to the point you can no longer remember the names, and so you stop trying. It was the first step into introducing the disposable player feeling that is so pervasive in retail. Take a look at retail wow and the way players interact, everyone not in your clique might as well be a poorly coded NPC, they don’t even offer quests they just take up space.

Beyond that encounters will need to be retuned with the newer talent setup and gear availability being kept in mind. Even some of the gear may need to be slightly tuned simply because having dungeon gear that was designed as a catch up be available from the start will drastically alter the feeling of progression many will experience in raids. Some of the earlier raid sets might even need slight tweaking of stats to better cement their position, because killing a boss who drops downgrades when you’re wearing a 5-man blue is just not right.

Itemization shifted focus over the course of vanilla and not all items received the attention they needed, many items got updated later but many were missed. This gives the Dev team the chance to go through the items with a fine tooth comb and tweak under performing items and better fit them into a cohesive whole. Some items are terribly budgeted and others appear weirdly under budget.

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25

1.12 had a number of class balance/itemization issues that still hadn’t been addressed. So while it was the best patch of vanilla it still had a long way to go.

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26

How can it be the best patch with mutilated AV? I mean, sure, you might not like BGs all that much but I always felt like it was a huge mistake on Blizzard’s part when they decided to to change this BG.

I care very little about class “imbalances”, at no point in time classes in WoW were balanced, even nowadays with the total homogenization.

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27

Because there is more to a patch than just “what is the state of AV”?

Ok, and other people apparently care very little about what version of AV we get. I just… don’t understand how your concern has more weight than someone else’s?

28

Examples of what’s so special about 1.12?

I personally don’t understand why should we get the mutilated version of AV considering that Classic isn’t just a Vanilla 1.12 re-released. Why the most short lived patch has became a reference point for Classic?

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29

Despite having played since patch 1.4 or thereabouts, i couldn’t possibly identify a single detail of consequence about what was different in 1.12.

The reason I’m worried is entirely due to the claims on this forum about uncapped debuffs and reduced effort required for threat management.

30

It’s static. No more nerf bat, no more balancing patches, just warriors being both the only viable tank and highest dps with no hope of ever having a different flavor of the month.

31

Nothing like misrepresenting what no changes stands for. Frankenpatch of all vanilla elements has always been accepted. Just not elements beyond that scope.

As far as 1.12 is concerned, I believe that had vanilla launched in the 1.12 state, it would have not been as awesome as it had been. What the developers “intended” matters naught, just what was . Some of the best versions of certain elements (like AV) were loved as they were and yet the developers neutered the everloving fark out of them to align with their intent and vision. The players who loved that content be damned.

Accomplishing things in mid vanilla meant a lot more than late vanilla because they were not as easily achieved.

So yeah, had it launched in 1.12 state it would have been watered down bile. If they want to do this project justice they should keep that in mind and go the extra mile to return effort/risk/reward to where it should be (to each individual element of the game) to be meaningful again.

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32

The only problem I have with 1.12 is the version of AV in that patch. But everything else? Love it.

I love easily puggable MC.

I love Dire Maul gear.

I love the state of all the classes.

I love CRBGs on low-med pop servers or servers where one faction is favored heavily.

33

They actually haven’t addressed cross realm BGs specifically, it’s still open to interpretation I think.

34

I think no changers now fall into 2 camps. One side wants to keep it easy mode. The other wants to make Vanilla as it was - as much as possible. Meaning, it would be grindier and more difficult.

The former being not much better than people wanting guild banks.

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35

It’s the last Vanilla patch? That makes it special enough, not to mention that Blizz has said that’s the patch they are going ahead with. That also makes it pretty “special”.

Because the game isn’t focused around which AV version we get? There are loads more things in the game that AV.

Also, the shortest lived patch is what we’re getting because it’s the last one; it’s the one that’s easiest for Blizz to work with.

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36

I love the way people warp what blizzard actually said.
It is either willful ignorance or trolling.

Anyone with Zyrius in their most liked list is worth ignoring outright.

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37

Sure thing, champ.

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38

1.1 was the first patch of Vanilla. It’s also special. Not sure where you’re heading with this logic.

Plus Blizzard have never explicitly said that 1.12 is the version of the game we’re getting.

Also, 1.12 was de-facto a pre-TBC patch already. Cross-realm BGs and the design change of AV was a clear indication of the things to come. Not to mention some strange manipulations with the itemization when pretty much everything was buffed for some reason. I never understood why so many people here think that 1.12 is the vanilla patch while it can’t be further from truth.

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39

“Foundation” was the word used. Also they pointed out they chose it as the foundation because it was the most complete patch, meaning it would be easier to change specific elements of vanilla rather than to recreate them from scratch.

40

i do like 1.12

crbgs are very important to me. if we dont get them i will stick with the games im playing now, im not wasting that much of my time in queue. if we do get them, and i think we will i will be right here