OK I played the game a long time but this seemed to become a thing I think it really started in BFA it kind of felt This idea where you either have to get single target or aoe.
Does anyone else think this is really stupid If I still think that divine storm should be a generator not a spender Now I will say it was cool and legion.
With the whole your divine storm becoming a projectile that heals your party and does damage your enemies cool concept but It gets old really fast you need a little bit of both Realistically because what happens is ultimately you’ll have to have an entirely different speck just to deal with trash and if you’re on a bus fight that has any ads you’re completely worthless.
I don’t know maybe this is just coming from a casual player someone that stopped playing about a quarter way through BFA and played shadowlands here and there But after looking at the talent trees if even I can see these problems that’s kind of saying something.
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Some might enjoy it, i honestly dont feel like a full class when im not optimal for a scenario cause i was forced into a certain build depending on the weekly affix or something that requires a specific path.
The feeling of going into an M+ and noticing that you forgot a specific talent/lego/conduit feels tremendously bad, now being locked into a run where you feel inadecuate the whole time, and this is def gonna happen now and then with the talents if you forget to micromanage them every fight/dungeon.
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Can’t you have multiple builds for each dungeon?
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Yes and many specs dont suffer from this. Enh unholy fury and many otherw can have builds that do well in both scenarios. But df ret is locked onto one or the other. Give fredback I guess maybe they increase ds damage by3%
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I mean I don’t know I just think it’s silly saying that OK you can speck yourself to be specifically Single target Or aoe That just feels so wrong.
When there are so many scenarios in this game where you need to be a little bit of both you know it just doesn’t add up to me.
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Do you know what the Delta is between an aoe build on single target and a Single target build on single target? I think once you discover that number it’s not really worth the energy of worrying about.
Im not sure but as of live rn the difference is actually massive.
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We have too many talents directly empowering Templar’s Verdict. This is an issue and I really hope it gets fixed before DF comes out, because if it isn’t, I likely won’t be purchasing it.
Why wouldn’t you want a lot of talents impacting your only ST holy power spender. The whole of paladin gameplay is just building up to use it. It’s the meat of your rotation.
Because it directly competes with Divine Storm, which is why we’re garbage on 2-3 targets. It’s obvious if you really think about how our damage interactions work in the game.
Pally just has a niche. Can’t be good at everything. Then every class and spec would just all do the same things, and there’d be no point in bringing one over the other. It would get boring and pointless real fast.
I think this is a massive problem with ret tbh. It really comes to a head though when none of ret’s other abilities do ANY damage. CS hits for actually 1k which is pathetic. In addition to this ret has no good cleave options which just feels bad as melee.
Legion at least had divine hammer and zeal cleave but now its just 3 globals of 0 dps spells until DS or TV, your spells feel like they have 0 impact outside of spenders. And DS doesn’t even feel good in aoe without wings/sanctified wrath or FR. If you compare this to rogue you would immediately see how their other spells actually do damage outside of spenders.
Ret FEELS off, which is more important than tuning to be honest.
No, it doesn’t. Retribution has no niche. There’s nothing Retribution excels at, except having a bad healer in a low key. We have average single target and AOE damage even when specing for either one specifically, and then we’re just bad in 2-3 targets (maybe even 4 targets).
The issue isn’t that Pally doesn’t have its place, the issue is that the niche it fills is so much more readily filled by other classes, if not other versions of Paladin, that there’s hardly a reason to bring more than one. No one wants Ret because both Prot and Holy fill the same Niche it does, and following their nerfs many classes offer near-identical functionality and, more than that, better performance at its respective group role that you’d hardly find yourself hurting not to have one.
We don’t expect to be good at everything, we just want to be good at the supportive playstyle paladin was always intended to have.
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I want to be an actual support spec if they’ll actually implement abilities that allow me to do that properly. In DF, we’re actually going backwards with that. We get less access to non-DPS abilities, as it stands, and our utility abilities are not good enough to pick over DPS talents. Maybe if they had shorter cooldowns coughuther’sdevotioninthetalenttreecough that would be something? BoP on a 4 minute cooldown? Lame. Cleanse Disease? Useless. Blessing of Freedom? Niche and single target; hardly any use in a raid environment.
It’s so weird THE support spec for raiding originally has nothing resembling what it formerly had.
Pallies do have a niche. It’s just incredibly undertuned. You should be asking for buffs that improve the things they are meant to be good for instead of asking for radical changes that shift them in a completely different direction.
You will be far worse off reworking ret’s direction this far into the alpha than you would be allowing them to keep their current path. Then things may still end up poorly, and you’ve wasted all your development time going in circles. At least at this stage you could ask for a few buffs, a few new additions, and have a complete feeling spec.
Reworking a spec this late has never once worked out.
That’s the problem: they aren’t even giving us that. I mentioned it in another post but we need to treat this like The Big Ask: demand everything we want knowing they’ll at most give us 50% of everything we need to stop the complaining.
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They have not said anything about what they want Retribution to be. That’s the problem. There is no proper communication from the dev team. I just finished typing this when I saw Kyit’s post pop up, yeah, exactly. We’re not getting communication. Holy gets blue replies almost instantly about things being resolved. Retribution? “Yeah we know that’s fun, but you can’t have that, because you have a crotch horse.” Nothing else.
I mean, the direction has always been centered around them being made for heavy burst. At least it was this way since I think Legion. Where during their cd’s they pump, after their cd’s they do nothing.
This was further expanded on even in Shadowlands during the 1 min burst build. And the buffs to execution sentence is seeming like the 1 min burst build is gonna be buffed even more.
The only problem with this philosophy and why blizzard seems like they have no idea what they are doing is because of how hard it is to balance. Mostly in regards to pvp. Where burst is like the strongest thing to have. If you can kill an opponent without them being able to fight back it’s not exactly fair.
So it’s tricky for blizzard to balance their vision for the spec, while keeping it healthy.
It’s not actually that difficult. They can adjust numbers if they have to separately; it hasn’t been hard since they implemented the tech to have separate damage profiles between PVE and PVP. They just don’t want to, because they seem not to care much about how Retribution is in PVE; primarily focusing on PVP. They look at it from PVP, and they base their decisions on that. That’s the only logical conclusion one can make from their actions and statements.
They might make us not be the absolute worst in terms of spec charts, but we still have nothing else going for us either compared to many other specs, and we’re in competition with Holy/Prot who have objectively better utility. Damage isn’t even the worst part.