Did you really stoop to abusing them report system? That’s the last refuge of a poor loser, tattle telling.
You know what? I’m not going to stoop to this guy’s level. He just isn’t worth it.
I will say this however. No one should be making threats to try and silence the player-base, and as I skim over his post history, it appears Amideus has been engaging in attack-dog tactics and trying to bully posters for far longer than I’ve been a part of this thread.
So that this thread is not derailed, as he seems to desire; I would suggest people ignore him for 4 months (the max) via the Activity Pane, and to not engage him any further. The best move is to completely ignore him in dialogue and resume the discussion without him.
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Kind of reminds me of the Dreamskull days, though at least he was often funny.
Looks like you’re the one who doesn’t play the class based on your armory.
Voidform being fun is subjective, I can’t tell you that you’re wrong for enjoying it. But I can say, at least for myself and all the top spriests I’ve spoken to, that we don’t find it fun and would much rather revert to shadow orbs or have a complete overhaul, especially with how things are looking on the alpha.
I made another thread with my suggestion on how they could rework the mechanics of voidform and insanity to remove the ramp while keeping the class identity, and also giving choice in the talent tree and rotation.
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I like voidform in form, but not in function (no need to beat a dead horse as everyone knows shadows downsides).
I think one idea may be to reverse how voidform currently works (ie instead of getting into the form and extending stacks per time in, having a high set of stats at the beginning of the form which then scales down after a set amount of time). To me, voidform is currently wonky because it can’t frontload damage and scales well off secondary’s as it extends form.
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If that happened, it would instantly become too mathy as you would want to drop void form at the precise moment in order to get back in asap in order to reset your burst window to optimize DPS.
It may lead to purposely stopping DPS / Insanity generation just to force a drop out and start building up again.
I think it will end up just feeling clunky.
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And when we weren’t gates behind 30 seconds of derping to do any damage? And then if we decided to step up and provide utility to our group, our dps drops so freaking hard that we would have been better off being Holy priest dps? I loved old shadow.
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Do you know WHY this character, who has been my main since the latter half of WotLK, isn’t at level cap? Janky; Worthless; Unbalanceable; Voidform.
I LOVE the Old Gods, the Void, the dark, ancient horrors lurking beneath Azeroth. I love that how they leave demons and fallen Titans as heroes desperately seeking to save the galaxy. My love of the Old Gods started with Yogg Saron, twin nemesis and overlord of Northrend alongside, opposing, the Lich King.
I loved them even more when Deathwing sundered Azeroth. The heavy role they played in Cataclysm. I love how much closer our spec gets to the Old Gods.
But the miserable 1 minute mechanic of ramping up to do damage, be it a gargantuan beat down like in Emerald Nightmare, or worse than a freaking disc priest ever since, is extremely, inherently, unfun. I’ve hated how I’m supposed to frantically smash my face on the keyboard like a cracked out lunatic every minute for some 20~30 seconds. I’ve hated how I can do NOTHING but my cracked out keyboarding during that 20~30 second, lest I become worse than useless, to my raid. I’ve hated Trashform with everything I’ve got. It is a complete and utter failure of design.
What did Classic teach me? The inexperienced ‘clowns’ at old Blizzard, back in 2004, crafted a far better Shadow Priest, off their nonexistent mmo designing experience, than modern WoW. I can actually play in solo content on Old Shadow. I can do dungeons without the team looking at me weird. I could do my raids if that mattered to me. I am a terrifying threat in PvP, true to the dark Shadow Priest’s aesthetics.
Voidform was a unique experiment. But it’s run its course, and it’s failed. If you can’t get Voidform right in 4 years; that’s an ENTIRE presidential term- then it’s time to scrap it. It’s done. It’s failed. Get rid of it, and move on. Our class only has one lonely DPS spec, and we can’t afford to waste it on a sad gimmick that an extremely minute minority enjoy. Prune the living crap out of Voidform, please.
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It’s posts like this that get deleted on their own merit. It has nothing to do with the “developers” not liking what you have to say. It’s because half of what you posted in response to me was just being exceptionally rude and attacking me without anything else in the post.
And while I absolutely did some of the same, those posts were reported and deleted too.
I think another side effect is some of the previous situations with Shadow in past expansions. Historically we had some of the healing spells of our counterparts, and that left us with the ability to provide a level of utility in PVP that was too strong at the time. They scaled back a lot of the tools and utility we had, because we just did too much.
As shadow got reworked in future expansions, the strength in our utility was never given back. If anything, as low mobility and control as we are, we should have the best self healing and mitigation of the casters. That was the strength of shadow in vanilla and TBC. The ability to be a highly defensive but less mobile caster. We’ve lost that passive defense and the passive healing over time, but the mobility remained near constant for a long time.
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go off I got your back. Everything you said is spot on period.
Also don’t engage him.Please just ignore. you do not have to justify your opinion to him.
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Perhaps, I was thinking more about it from a tuning perspective (like at lower gear it would help front load dps, however you would get back into form more quickly with higher haste/crit). Not saying its a perfect, but at times its nice to spitball ideas and hem them out as a group.
Right now, shadow with gear scales far to well and without gear feels weak. This is largely due to the mechanics of the spec and how voidform/azerite/stats affect it. Maybe the fix is as simple as the removal of such items in SL, and simple tuning around the base spec.
That’s what many of us have been trying to get to.
Shadow Orbs is just an idea because it worked in WoD.
Doesn’t have to be that because i’ll personally settle for and era of Shadow Priest prior to Legion as a baseline and go from there.
- Legion Shadow is an abomination that just doesn’t work and by its very essence cant be balanced because it has to be at 1 extreme and then over time work its way to the other extreme.
- If those 2 extreme numbers are on the low end, it feels horrible to play and un-rewarding.
- If those 2 numbers are at the high end, it will be clearly OP and need to be nerfed.
- If it barely moved between those 2 numbers, then it becomes pointless and therefore needs to just be removed as its just a waste of time and a determinant to the spec as a whole.
6 Likes
| How about we fact check this… |
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I have 44 DAYS played on my Priest at lvl 120, I have played Holy, Disc, and Shadow in M15+ constantly, I have done Raid Finder, Normal, Heroic, and Mythic on all 3 specs. I have Cutting Edge for most Raids this Xpack. I sat myself this tier as we have too many active Raiders for this tier, and it gave me a good chance to get some RL stuff in order, otherwise I would be progressing on Mythic N’zoth right now.
| So… If you wanted someone with Priest Experience, here I am |
|---|
So let’s give answers to the question.
- Is Shadow Priest fundamentally broken as a Spec?
Yes
It is wholly reliant on Azerite, Essences, and Corruption. Without them it would not function as a spec. Anyone playing the Shadowlands Alpha has commented on this, without those outside abilities Shadow is an empty husk.
- Does the Priest community really hate Voidform?
Yup, with a very large majority as well
I and almost all players who play Shadow on a competitive level hate it. It’s awesome for casuals because it’s so different than any other spec, it’s not so fun when you see your friends doing double your damage and having more utility at the same time.
- Is it competitive in M+?
NO
it is viable, not competitive, meaning you can play Shadow and do well with the right group/players, but almost every other class will be better. It is very weak in M+ outside of a small group of dedicated players.
- Why does everyone keep saying it needs a rework? I think it’s fine.
Mainly because Blizzard promised a rework for the first patch of BFA.
The so-called “rework” consisted of a bunch of nerfs making an already struggling class completely useless for the entire first Tier of the expansion. The attempted to make high Voidform stacks less impactful so they slightly buffed base damage and made Voidform have almost no haste scaling at all. It killed the class. So they introduced Echos of Insanity later to make it not terrible again.
- Why are people so hostile towards me when I say I like Voidform?
Probably because we are all sick of Voidform and they are trying to stifle any positive feedback that gives the false impression that the community is fine with Voidform.
That doesn’t excuse them being rude. I wish they would explain better why Voidform is fundamentally flawed and cannot be truly balanced as long as it scales exponentially. And removing exponential scaling get’s rid of the defining mechanic of current Shadow. Without it we are even worse, so the only real choice is a rework.
- Why don’t see a lot of Shadow Priests posting hate for Voidform?
They do, but it’s probably because people just stopped playing Shadow, so they stopped visiting the Priest forums. It’s sad but the Shadow priest community is dwindling, there used to be dozens of sites dedicated to just Shadow priest. Doing haste breakpoint calculations and tons of other analytics. They all stopped cause no one cares anymore.
So from someone with far too much experience on the subject. I want Voidform gone. I don’t care if it’s Shadow Orbs and Devouring Plague, I don’t care if it’s as boring as Insanity as a builder/spender like Rage or Fury, I just want it gone. 4 Years has been far too long.
13 Likes
Need to clarify a few things here:
Is Shadow Priest fundamentally broken as a Spec?
I refrain from these kinds of arguments of fundamentally broken, as nothing is entirely broken all the time. I do agree that Blizzard has used the Azerite system to “fix” shadow currently instead of doing the legwork required to update the spec, and that’s entirely a problem.
Does the Priest community really hate Voidform?
This is all perspective. Again, not really going to dig into the “What the community thinks” argument, as it doesn’t lead anywhere.
Is it competitive in M+?
I agree. It is not competitive. I never said that it was competitive. I have said quite the opposite, and have ever since Legion. I was infuriated to have my baseline level of performance tied to Twins, a legendary I didn’t see during the entirety of the expansion while playing. Which forced me to have to roll up a monk just to play with my friend, who then quit playing 2 weeks later, leaving me with no interest in Legion anymore.
Why does everyone keep saying it needs a rework? I think it’s fine.
I never said the spec was fine. I said that I like voidform and I like features of it. That doesn’t mean I like the spec wholesale as it is. And I think that comes from the fact that when I say that, people don’t understand what I am talking about. And the more that people pile on top of me with negative comments and trolling, the further away my original statement gets. To the point that other people in this thread are repeating some of the things I said WAY earlier and getting likes for it.
Why are people so hostile towards me when I say I like Voidform?
It’s because we’re talking about different things when we say Voidform. I like the going into and coming out of voidform idea, I like the insanity as a resource idea, and I enjoy void bolt. I’m not at ALL married to the linear gameplay of “last as long as humanly possible for stacks”. And I think that’s people’s biggest issue with the spec. Personally, I think the stacking haste and all the things that are layered onto that is the REASON we can’t get meaningful updates to the spec. And it needs to change. I just absolutely oppose going back to a MoP or WoD Orbs style because I hated it, and felt it was very boring and still had problems. Problems that exist today. Problems that have existed for the life of Shadow as a spec.
Why don’t see a lot of Shadow Priests posting hate for Voidform?
People post hate all the time. That’s ALL the forums ever are. Hate. There’s rarely real feedback on forums, it’s a place for people to complain when they experience something in game they personally don’t like. It’s why I want to clarify my points and make sure that blind hate doesn’t cause another change in shadow and take away the potentially good aspects the spec has now for more changes that go nowhere.
It’s why I’m hostile when people who don’t have experience in the expansions just tell me that I’m wrong or that Shadow isn’t viable at all, instead of actually pointing out the weaknesses in the gameplay. Because it is far more meaningful to everyone here and the developers to explain WHY things feel bad or aren’t working. And a lot of that comes from gameplay. And if you don’t play, then you won’t have the same frame of reference that I do. And it significantly undermines attempts to talk from a position of “authority” like Heylaa has been.
I’ve not tried to use authority as a reasoning behind my arguments. And never meant to with my complaint. It was about some others using it without having anything to really show that. Not that an argument from authority is really relevant here to begin with.
1 Like
So after 4 years of Void Form broken in one way or another, you think this go around in alpha / shadowlands they can finally make the changes needed to Void Form and it resulting in it being a spec that actually be fun and play able?
Have you see what they have implemented so far? Nothing but a slap in the face. They cleary dont know how to make Void Form / Insanity work properly.
I am sick and tired of waiting as I waited for 4 years. Enough is enough. Trash this failed experiment and move it be it something new or something they can start with that worked. Shadow Orbs is at least something that all or at least the majority of priests found enjoyment from way more then Void Form.
I did play Shadow in Legion and I saw then it was bad and it only got worse in BFA and so far seems worse yet in Alpha. How can you possibly think staying on that route giving that level of evidence is the correct path.
People are unsatisfied with how Void Form plays all around. You even admit to the flaws and still think it can be fixed. I don’t know what to tell you but the evidence is all around indicating that after 4 years, this will not work because as we have stated, it cant be balanced in its current form.
Make it a talent and be done with it as I’ve already stated. But stop forcing this utter mess on everyone else.
5 Likes
You really lack reading comprehension don’t you? You just don’t actually bother to listen or read the things I am saying, even when they would align with your viewpoints.
A concept being thematically cool, is exactly that. No more, no less.
The core of WoW DPS gameplay revolves around killing the opponents or mobs. Guess what does that in WoW? Damage does. As far as I’m aware, a mob in this game has never been done in by a player with class fantasy.
There is no written rule that class fantasy must hinder your damage output / make your class objectively worse than the others. Yet here we are.
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I summed up your stance as it’s becoming more clear that you see the problems with the spec as it currently exists.
The issue is that its not getting better. 4 years in and its only getting worse. Yet you think its still a viable route to take going into Shadowlands? Why? What evidence do you see that leads you to thinking Void Form can just be fixed without losing its identity?
I rather move on from 4 years of failure and go with a model that is more familiar to the devs and can then grow from there. Because as it stands with the Void From / Insanity iteration, it is stuck, stagnate and any type of change in the positive direction will make shadow always OP and then be nerfed. So they are forced to keep the spec playing like crap to balance out whats its like at the high end.
Essentially your playing 90% of the time struggling just to do basic things that comes easily for all other classes 10% of the time.
That is BAD design. But that is what we have and by the looks for it only getting worse going into Shadowlands.
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Yea but you don’t seem to understand there’s a lot you can do with that beyond what it is currently. You still just don’t seem to understand what I mean when I say the things that I do and just keep repeating the same thing over and over again, just constantly saying “4 years of failure” isn’t really going to get things changed and certainly isn’t going to let your point be understand properly.