Why do we even need conquest now? Flat PvP Scaling

PVP Arenas
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Had to put it in a category but same thought applies to BG’s as well. TLDR at bottom

What, other than forcing an additional tedious grind on players, is the point of conquest anymore?

Frankly, I dont even see the need for Conquest Points. Im sure the elitists will flock in and Doomsay all of this - how dare you let casuals get gear equal to the most bestest of players! But hear me out.

Is gear really the point of Rated PvP? For gear acquisition? I dont think it is. And it doesnt minimize the competitiveness of PvP if we just give an equal gear field across the board.

I think most of us do rated PvP for the achievements, the rankings and any further prestige it provides us. You could further enhance this with additional transmogs or pets/mounts etc for winning victories - but essentially the point of rated PvP is for satisfaction and pride.

We dont need a gear grind for that. I have never understood Blizzards fascinationw ith making people grind multiple sets of gear for everything. Anyone remember fights that needed +Nature or +Fire resist?

You certainly need a separation of PvP and PvE gear. I get that. back in Vanilla, someone clearing BWL and AQ40 with their guild was going to smash anyone not doing raid content in PvP. Even through to TBC some of the most prominent PvP teams and players were there simply because their gear check was that much higher.

Implementing the much maligned Resilience and then PvP scaling gear later fixed that.

So thats all good.

but why do I need to sit and grind Conquest points on every character I want to PvP with just so im not disadvantaged by gear? AM I losing to a guy because he is legit a better player than me, or am I losing to him because I just started this season on a character and heand his teammates have maxed conquest and a 15 point ilvl differential?

Case in point, ive been PvPing with my Warlock and my Warrior…both sitting at around 3500 conquest points and have several pieces of gear plus the weapons (totally messed around on my Warrior because I made a 639 weapon day 2 with my Epic heritages and then Blizz changed the quest to appease whiners, so I got 2 weapon tokens anyway and wasted what couldve been different gear choices).

I now decided to pick up my hunter who is in the basic gear. Tried a few Solo Shuffles and every single time im getting into Shuffles where the other players have 5-6 pieces of epic gear already. Theres no MMR obviously on ilvl. Going in with 5500 HP, immediately seen as the weakest link and body slammed isnt fun. And worse off, is you dont get points if you arent winning matches.

Yea i could keep trying. yea i could grind epic BG’s and arena skirmishes for a drib drab of conquest. But im already grinding on 2 characters. And…even then…why? Whats the point of forcing me to get PvP gear?

Just make PvP gear scale across the board. Eliminate the gear grind. Better players and teams will always continue to win and you can throw in extra incentives if required to offset the fragility around not having superior gear to everyone else.

TLDR;

Eliminate the gear grind. Better players and better teams will continue to win arenas and BG’s because they are better players and better at their class. Theres no need to have any ilvl differential for players. Some of the top MMORPG’s around with solid PvP dont make their players gear grind a completely separate set of gear to participate in pvP - and in those games the better players still win because of better play.

10 Likes
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No, conquest serves as progression you get better gear you feel stronger.

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Progression to what?

Youre saying no because it makes you feel stronger. So its just your own epeen? You want to have higher ilvl than your opponent so you feel stronger than them when you beat them down?

I already have 2 characters who are maxing out conquest. so for me, why do I want to continue to have to grind gear on a 3rd? and what point does it even serve?

Youre saying its “progression”. Progression to what? Being able to say you did a grind and got better gear than another character? Its a pointless grind.

The REAL “progression” is the rankings advancement, achievements etc. The gear is completely irrelevant to that.

Give everyone level 1 swords. The better players will still win. Gear is irrelevant for anything other than making you feel better than someone else in terms of acquiring gear…which is a pointless end when the actual satisfaction is in rankings, achieves etc. Thats my point.

Im not sure why you feel you MUST get better gear just so you can say you feel stronger than someone else.

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Regardless of intentions, This only serves to hurt pvp participation more. It’s a bad idea.

They need to add meaningful gear back to pvp.

1 Like
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Lotta words, but in general gearing is fine. I personally like the idea of adjustable templates like gw2 has, but we’ve seen between legion, TR, and other games like swotr and gw2 that RPG games do not do well without a grind. It’s an intrinsic part of the genre and taking it away alienates more people than it brings in

Appease whiners? That was an extremely good change, and anyone who crafted a weapon was foolish to do so. The math was plainly there that it was inefficient to do so and that ascension was overrated. Further, no one NEEDED to immediately pull the trigger on their gear.

You wanted to get an advantage early, and it’s shameful and close-minded of you to criticize people voicing legitimate criticisms as “whiners”

Wdym? Casuals absolutely can get the best gear for pvp very easily and that’s totally fine and good for the game. There are people who end the season 1k rated with full conquest gear.

That’s exactly why the conquest cap exists, though. So we dont have a repeat of slands s4 where if you didnt grind for 20 hours in the first 2 days you werent behind forever.

Also, to answer your question, you’re still most likely losing because they’re a better player than you.

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Except everyone can get the same gear on the same timeline. No elitist has held me back this expansion.

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Pvp in terms of gear has never been this balanced. Not only the two tiers work (honor and conquest) we have in betweens with warmode warmonger gear.

-“but no skills when I lose due to gear” first of all good players do pvp in last expansions gear and they win just the same.
-“i shouldnt have to farm gear” you actually dont farm anything, you get currency for doing the content you enjoy (pvp) if all you wanted was to cap you can literally cap without setting foot in ranked modes its that easy.

So yes, mi character getting stronger and tiersets/ENCHANTS/embelishments/gems work as a progression system to deck out your character.

Current pvp gearing is just fine. Not just fine its great

2 Likes
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a good idea to me would be to just separate it like warlords of draenor did, you can have set templates for pvp and just play the game normal to get gear to play pve imo, when you enter pvp it should just scale you but good ideas though!!

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The gear already scales up everyone is on level playing field

Wod gearing is whst we have now. We can even csp without doing rated just like wod and ashran

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TLDR

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WoW players demand they have to grind for their gear. Even if it means they are just staying on par with everyone else and it makes balance changes more difficult due to scaling from start to end of season. They want to do more work for the same end result and will have it no other way.

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wow gearing should go through no changes from its current state, its perfect as-is in pvp and pve. maybe make pve gear a little more accessible, especially from pvp

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Yeah if the devs get their hands in the mix again only bad will come from it.

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Been saying this for years. Nobody has been able to logically explain it to me either. It’s literally and 100% only because it makes you play longer. There is not a single bit of justification that can be made logically for any other reason at this point. And it’s killing pvp.probably the single biggest reason people don’t wanna play.

Having to get a complete and total separate set of gear is just absolutely dumb. Particularly when you 100% HAVE TO GET FARMED…To earn it. Maybe…someday soon someone over at blizzard will realize this and save the day. I won’t hold my breath. People think pvp gear progression is somehow important. Not sure why…just…sucks.

At least for me it’s the reason I will only pvp for the last couple weeks of a season anymore…the resetting of the gear for the seasons makes it even more pointless…it makes it so unfun to know that you are in that arena or bg working your butt off to have that looming deadline of reset. All of the play/farming/prep/ finding a teammate or a good group…meshing, learning what works …all gone and start over like it never meant anything at all…

Oh…but here’s a mount.

3 Likes
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Although I focus on Pet Collecting and Battling, I do feel like I need to add something here. OP said:

“You could further enhance this with additional transmogs or pets/mounts etc for winning victories”

I feel like it is a common misconception that Battle Pets are still a vanity item or cosmetic, but the reality is that most are not. They have unique stats and abilities, and the Pet Family Battler achievements can hinge on niche pets. Locking Battle Pets behind PvP is one of the most commonly despised aspects of Pet Collecting, and there are currently 7 pets in that category. 2 of these are basically impossible to get without grinding honor endlessly for years, but at least they’re still available (technically).

One of the worst things Blizzard could possibly do for Pet Collectors is lock new pets behind seasonal PvP content.

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It is. Always has been

Gearing is fine and not the issue or source of any grievances

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This triggered a thought:

You know how in hearthstone (or other card games in general) theres constructed (can be outmatched easily with better cards) vs draft/arena, where its more level playing field.

Maybe there should be a seperate que mode where its even gear level, with standardized gear sets. I wouldn’t even mind shuffle being that mode, it would get rid of the gear requirement, and maybe even help with q times! :slight_smile: then you can shuffle yur way to full gear for premade arena queues. Just a thought. Prob has cons I didn’t think about yet.

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Sigh…

I apologize in advance for being repetitive for years and I realize that I’m starting to sound like a missionary, but…

Have you heard the good news about our Lord and savior Dr Bartle’s Taxonomy of Players?

No matter what type of content you choose to do, the motivations for doing that content vary depending on your general player taxonomy. Explorers do it to master the game systems, Killers do it to pwn noobs. Socializers do it to interact with other people and Achievers (like yourself obviously) do it for the titles, achievements, mounts and the like.

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1st- They need less modes. 2nd- Skill focused players don’t mind getting gear and non skill focused players love having better gear than other people. Gear appeals to more players than non gear relevant pvp.

On game modes-

There are too many versions of the same content and not enough players to do it. They shouldn’t have made “rated BGs”. They were trying to solve a non problem with a non solution. Twinks. Premades. Whatever you think was solved by separating the BG population, wasn’t. Offering gear for rating is a dumb design but it attracts Achievers/collectors to an otherwise crap game mode and inflates the participation numbers.

Arena doesn’t need to exist but since it does, it doesn’t need special gear with tier after tier of power creep.

I honestly prefer the BG faction rep gear, Wpvp ranking system, etc. The way Blizz has been handling instanced PvP really makes it crappier than it has to be.

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Gear is even level already are you olaying tww the current expansion?