We’re all adults here.
Why do some people still get hung up on the childish binary of “good vs. evil”?
'Are primalists the good guys?"
“Are the titans the bad guys?”
It just demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of how ethics work. Everyone should understand by now that every individual and every faction does what is best for themselves, so nobody is “the bad guy.”
Everyone is the hero of their own story.
Why is that difficult for some people to understand?
I don’t agree.
I’m a meanie.
The burning of Teldrassil didn’t benefit the Horde, let alone anyone else.
Neither did blowing up Undercity.
Blowing up planets didn’t help the Burning Legion any.
Jailer wanting to dominate Azeroth didn’t seem like it was even benefitting him, really I think he just wanted to do it because he was bored.
It’s boring writing but with recent lore there’s been a clear ‘villain’ that are doing destructive actions without any actual gain. Just because they can.
Now I don’t know if DF is going to do that! I hope not: The best antagonists are the ones where you understand where they’re coming from, after all! Their goals just stand opposed to the protagonists’.
Now those who harass sheep! Those are my villains.
This is a video game. I want to be a good guy killing bad guys, or for others, vice versa.
Some things CAN be left black and white. Making absolutely everything grey just complicates things way too much.
Plus, this universe is uber cartoony, so let there be “good and evil”.
This community struggles with nuance.
I have to question this one sometimes with these forum’s.
Incorrect. It benefitted the Jailer who derived anima from every soul sent into the Maw. Sylvanas was working for the Jailer, and so whatever benefitted him, benefitted her.
The Horde was routed. Blowing up Undercity denies the Alliance their conquest. That is definitely a benefit for the Horde.
They want to destroy all life so that the void has nothing to corrupt. The more they destroy, the better they’re doing.
That may be a valid point. Not sure why he cares about Azeroth.
I don’t generally see that. I see motives behind most of the things that happen. Bad writing? Sure, but the motive is there if you look for it. All except for the Jailer’s interest in Azeroth. That does seem random and unjustified.
I agree. Maybe the writing will be better and the motives of the so-called “villains” will be clearer moving forward. I already get the primalists more than I ever got the Mawsworn.
The problem with this is that asking me to believe in “good guys” and “bad guys” is like asking me to believe in Keebler Elves.
I’ve seen the “How It’s Made” video. I know for a fact that there are no Keebler Elves.
You could show me a Keebler Elf and I wouldn’t believe you, because I already understand how the cookies got here, and no elves were involved.
It’s the same with “good guys” and “bad guys.” You’ll never convince me that a villain doesn’t love anyone or doesn’t want the best for someone. Of course they do, everyone does.
You’ll also never convince me that a hero doesn’t have secrets, skeletons in his closet, and dark thought processes that sometimes win out over his better judgment.
So, I can’t just say, “It’s a video game, I’ll believe it.” Because it isn’t just a fantasy of something that doesn’t exist - it’s an attempt to redefine the way things obviously work, and I can’t overwrite the truth with a lie. The purpose of fiction is to use lies to emphasize the truth, not to obscure it and replace it with falsehoods.
It’s a matter of perspective. If the villain is doing what they are doing for their own benefit but it includes destroying your home, you aren’t going to look at it from their point of view. They are trying to harm me so they are bad, regardless of their motivations.
Lol, who cares about ethics in a made up fantasy land.
If it’s red, it’s dead.
I probably would, actually.
It’s my nature to look at things from my enemy’s perspective before I act.
Good? Bad? I’m the guy with a backpack full of seaforium.
People like being able to play the good guy or enjoy the thrill of being bad. Even with anti-heroes people like them because they are the best of both worlds. You can enjoy the thrill of being bad while still allowing for you to be good deep down. There is also the issue with creating a character that pretty grey because some actions will seem bad. While they are more interesting than just good or bad characters they take more work to make and maintain.
The Penguin from Batman Returns has just kidnapped a bunch of children. Your child is among those taken.
Through the lens of the viewer we know of his tragic backstory and his motivations for his actions.
But do you as the parent take the time to try and see things from his perspective? Would you even care? Or would your number one priority be getting your kid back and making the bastard who took them pay?
I’m not vying to remove nuance. A bad guy can still have people they love, but guess what, they still mass murdered 7 million people. Same for a supposed hero…
Also, the Keebler Elf analogy was pretty dumb and did not help get across your point AT ALL.
I feel like, at this point, you’re going to start saying the Jailer was a good villain because he was “protecting us from a greater threat”.
Question you should! I have been on the forums since I was 16.
I agree, just like how Hitler was the great hero and good guy for the German people in the 1930 to 40s
Calling something a grey area is just doing the wrong thing and trying to justify it.
You can do all of these but there is an order to it. First getting you kid back is the most important. After that you look at these from his perspective because I would want to know what caused this to happen so it will not happen again. Lastly we make him/ them pay because I want to make sure that everyone involved faces punishment not just the person we see.
Looking at things from another persons perspective does not mean you are absolving them of their crimes or wrong doing. You are just trying to understand what lead to the events taking places and what can be done to prevent or catch others in the future.
He absolutely was. Germany loved him with all their heart.
Don’t let them fool you. They try to deny it today, but they were as on board with his ideologies as the American South was on board with slavery.