So Sylvanas was powerless against the Jailer, and had no choice but to take the actions she did. Sounds like she was ‘made to serve,’ but that couldn’t possibly be, because that very prospect is what resulted in her rebelling when the Jailer had, just a moment before, reached the apex of his power.
And so, Sylvanas was either being coerced into helping this entire time, in which case her last-minute act of rebellion about “serving” makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, or else she was a willing accomplice to the Jailer, and bears the guilt for her actions.
7 Likes
Yeah, not seeing where that poster is saying they see Sylvanas as an abuse victim, but go ahead.
3 Likes
Yeah, to any Sylvanas fans reading this. Don’t engage. It’s not worth it.
1 Like
This. There is no way the writers can get out of this narrative corner they’ve written Sylvanas into and have it make sense. I was once a Sylvanas fan, but I can’t be with the way they’ve written her over the last few expansions.
7 Likes
OR
Sylvanas saw the Jailer as a victim of his imprisionment and actually believed that he intended to build a just system in it’s place. I’m not defending the writer’s choices. I’m just as confused as why Sylvanas would vouch for him.
Conditioning. Stockholm syndrome those are all real explanations that can be applied here.
This, unfortunately, leaves us with only a handful of possible interpretations for Sylvanas’ actions. She is either:
A) Evil - Sylvanas sees the Jailer as a victim, but in attempting to aid him, condemns countless innocents to ceaseless torment and oblivion. She is willing to see others suffer or be destroyed in order to fulfill her desires and those of the Jailer.
B) Incompetent - Sylvanas proceeded with the best intentions, and did not intend to cause others to suffer in order to achieve her goals, but through her own lack of awareness or skill, caused this suffering anyway. (I think this the least likely explanation)
C) Gullible and/or Foolish - Sylvanas genuinely believes the Jailer is interested in creating a just system for the afterlife, despite witnessing his willingness to use deplorable methods to achieve his ends. Although he is the entity responsible for the events leading to her own death and enslavement, and sees him forcing Anduin under his control, she believes that his final goal aligns with her own.
So there we go. Sylvanas is either irredeemably evil to the point where she’s at least as bad as Arthas, so completely inept that nothing that’s happened was according to plan after all, or even more foolish than the bulk of the main characters for believing that the Jailer had altruistic motives, and that his victory would result in a “good” outcome.
6 Likes
You know, it’s funny that the same people who condemn Saurfang for his BFA writing are willing to excuse all of Sylvanas’s BFA writing.
2 Likes
or none of the above.
She’s absolutely not a black and white villian nor is she evil or dumb. There has been a push and pull with her character these last few years and all of her fans saw it, There was something pulling Sylvanas OoC we just didn’t know what it was until now.
We know the Jailer manipulated Arthas and Ner’zul successfully I may add, because he appealed to what they wanted most and this backed up in the Kel’thuzad short story because he chose to follow the jailer willingly for Power.
Sylvanas above all wanted a “just universe” and that’s what the jailer used to manipulate her and that makes her the furthest thing from a villian… it makes her a good person who just wants to make the world ‘better’ and was taken advantage of and manipulated.
1 Like
I think we did, and still do: it’s the competing visions of different devs.
8 Likes
Unless they’re a sociopath or psychopath and get off on the violence, no nuanced character ever does evil things strictly because they love being evil. They’re always doing what they believe is right and just, but the fact that they inflict such horror on others in pursuit of that is what makes them evil.
Sylvanas is not a good person because she is perfectly willing to inflict things on innocent people that she is unwilling to suffer herself. Further, she never shows the slightest hesitation or remorse over her actions; if we had seen her trying to justify her actions to Tyrande, rather than gloating, or if we had seen her struggling with the reality of what she’d inflicted on others, rather than continuing down that path, then we would see elements of humanity that we could empathize with.
The tipping point in Breaking Bad with Walt’s character is when he could no longer feel empathy, and did not struggle with the morality of the things he was doing. In the first season, he has to write a list of “pros and cons” about taking the life of a single man, and writes down “You won’t be able to live with yourself” as one of the cons. By season five, he casually orchestrates the murder of eleven men with a self-satisfied expression.
Sylvanas never showed that sort of hesitation or self-doubt. Seeing those kinds of things is what separates terrible, but relatable - and sometimes sympathetic - characters like Walter White or Tony Soprano from completely evil characters like Emperor Palpatine or Hans Gruber. The first glimpse of doubt we see in Sylvanas is during her exchange with Anduin, but we never see anything of the sort related to her other crimes.
Some of the most horrific crimes - both in fiction and history - have been justified as trying to make the world “better.” That doesn’t make the people orchestrating those crimes good or heroic, however.
6 Likes
Because shes a female racial leader for the horde side. What, are they going to identify with her for being violently killed and then raised from the dead? Powerful wahmen leaders are hard to find in WoW outside of the night elves, and really, who likes the night elves? That tree deserved to burn.
Stupid tree.
1 Like
Nah, I don’t think so.
I think that’s a myth. A convenient myth that explains away all player misinterpretation as not taking personal accountability for not fully grasping the story being told.
It’s okay to just admit to misunderstanding the story. I misunderstood it too.
They left a lot of room for misinterpretation by not telling us Sylvanas motivations. Any of us, not even Loyalists.
The only thing that unites the players is the singular question “Why is Sylvanas doing this?” And it’s to get people to buy her upcoming book to get answers.
Never forget, the real villian is Capitalism.
2 Likes
Good morning this is what I hope is the current conversation in the story team
2 Likes
Side note; why is okay for Sylvanas to raise people as undead without their consent, but wrong for Xe’ra to Lightforge Illidan without his consent? That’s a double standard.
The people raised into undeath weren’t in a position to consent to becoming undead due to being dead; even less capable of consenting than being unconscious. Sylvanas might not force them to serve her (initially), but she didn’t give them a choice about becoming undead in the first place.
Sylvanas may not have killed them, but she’s exploiting their deaths; what if they just wanted to stay in the afterlife?
1 Like
Ah, ooookay. If that’s your position, then there’s clearly no point in trying to discuss further.
4 Likes
