Why do people want progressive items but not specs?

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
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The main argument I’ve seen against progressive talent specs is that they were very bad. But isn’t that also the case with items? Yeah the talents were bad but so was having spirit on everything. If we’re doing progressive itemization in the name of historical accuracy and preserving the difficulty of the game couldn’t the same arguments be made for talent trees? It seems like a major gameplay element that is being overlooked

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I want progressive everything but it will never happen

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Some people argued in favour of progressive everything.

It wasn’t something the community was unified on though, and Blizzard went with starting at 1.12 as the foundation with content phases instead.

Though it’d be kind of funny to see the reaction of Paladins when they realize they wouldn’t have Greater Blessings for around 14 months.

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Almost as great as deathcoil not having a fear/horrify effect attached to it and spell resistances being able to go into the negatives.

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Or Rogues using Barman Shanker pre-normalization.

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Or using the weapon swap macro to use ambush with a thrash blade equipped.

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and we’re getting the worst outcome, pick and choose progressiveness.

it’s a waste of everybody’s time, dev and player, for them to do it half way. we get timegated nerfed raiding for months/years instead of getting either an accurate progression server or accurate 1.12 server

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I guess because it’s the easiest factor of several that will make the game significantly easier the second time around to change.

Changing the stats on gear can be done without pushing a patch to the game client, talents and the way certain spells / abilities worked differently before being changed probably require a client side change.

Removing the gear that was added later makes the feeling of grinding instances early on worse IMO, as a caster for example I have no reason to do strat UD without the new items like the wand off baron or the red hat off magistrate, but in vanilla I ran the instance countless times on my mage because I wanted my t0 legs.

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Or using snowballs to instantly send your friends to the end of their flight path.

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What are you even talking about? There Is not going to be any progressive items or specs or anything like that period. Where do people get all these fantasies from?

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I thought the lack of “progress,” ie planned obsolescence, was the entire goal of this project?

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Where are these arguments for progressive talent specs? Are you talking about threads asking for pre-1.12 threat and/or pre-Naxx warrior scaling? Are you talking about those who very much wanted 1.1 talents rather than 1.10 or 1.12?

In fact, I think I’ve seen 10 times the arguments that 1.12 talent specs were very bad, and paladins {or fill in the blank with the favored bad spec} be improved by adding a taunt {or fill in the blank with the one change they believe will do it}.

Possibly. But why not actually express your view and the arguments you believe are strongest, rather than trying to use the flip side of the slippery slope technique where you claim that since X, now Y.

Personally, I think a notable issue with any sort of progressive talent specs is something I remember from my vanilla experience - feeling like every patch involved logging in to “Your talents have been reset”. Even when the change was irrelevant to me, I had to go look up how I’d done my talents and be careful to not make a mistake setting them. (Then again, free talent resets were a bonus on some of my alts.)

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Man, this is a good point… where’s my free respec every two months in classic? :smile:

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The reason we’re doing 1.12 talents? Most likely because the last class talent revamps happened in 1.12. Rogues were the last class to be revamped.

From my knowledge before each revamp, as they happened progressively, many specs/classes were just flat out useless until the revamp.

So if you want progressive talents, you’re going to have to make a good argument on why some classes and specs should be completely useless for any amount of time in the game. Now before anyone comes in yes, not every spec was “optimal” for raiding in 1.12, but by 1.12 every spec had something it did fairly decently. Whether it was raiding, pvp, or anything in between, every spec could be used for anything in the game even if it was just filling a niche roll, like the boomkin aura for mages.

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I want pre-BC patch for talents

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This. My wife didn’t get to play much during Vanilla, but her biggest complaint is exactly that. She would finally get used to a rotation or spec and then she’d log in and have a forced respec… she’d get frustrated. She only played 10hours or so a month, and then having to spend 2-3 of those researching talents and learning the new setup was aggravating for her.

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It’s not bad, it’s just something that I assume Blizzard just does not want to do because it could potentially confuse people.

IMO progressive talents and SPELLS / ABILITIES is the way to really handle it because it gives the player a 100% authentic feel.

Unfortunately there are people who would QQ to the end of the earth because they want to play a fury warrior.

There was a very lengthy discussion about this on the old Classic forum, actually a few very lengthy discussions.

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You know for certain that API feature has no chance in hell of ever resurfacing. They ended that function by adding the Global CD to weapon swaps for a reason.

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There’s literally a sticky post declaring their intention to update certain items over time

To anyone asking to justify why something should progress the way classic originally did:

The burden of justification has always been on the changes side of things. Talents effect everything a player does on a fundamental level from how you level up to how much dps you do.

The best argument I could see for progressive items but not talents is that talents don’t invalidate or cause you to skip content. They just augment what you can do with what is already in the world.

Something being inconvenient like resetting your talents all the time hasn’t been a good justification for something to not be in the game. Such as mail taking an hour

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The way I read it was certain items wouldn’t be available untill the AQ bucket like relics, and some of the really OP items that were added. They’re not rolling back all gear to 1.1 levels.