Classic is not hardcore. It’s casual believe it or not. Blizzard stated that when wow was first released it would be a “easier to learn harder to master” mmorpg, yes they did say harder to master but they also said easier to learn. They also made death penalty’s easier compared to other mmorpgs like only having to walk back to your corpse. You might think, “but it’s way easier today in Bfa!” Mechanically no, numbers wise yes. and it will always get easier overall starting from classic they’ve always had the idea of improving quality of life and conscience every expansion that happens. So for people bashing retail for being so casual, go read back on what Blizzard said back when they were developing wow in early 2000’s about how it was gonna be a much easier mmorpg. This is also why WoW got so popular, it catered to casuals more so than other mmorpgs before wow and that’s why so many people play is because of the more casual systems and that’s why as time goes on they continue to improve those convience systems is to appease that same casual crowd from 2004. Only reason why wow was “harder” back then was.. well it was 2004, things always get easier in life as time goes on. Even then not everything in wow was even that hard either, the mechanics were so easy compared to today.
Only reason it’s as hard as people think is because of the numbers (hit points, damage taken/given etc). I could go on but this is getting long and it’s hard to explain this by typing but I’m hoping everyone understands my point, vanilla is no hardcore game in anyway, it’s just a time consuming slower paced game compared to today.
too much wall of text to read.
Sure, Blizzards goal has always been to be the more casual MMO, and WoW was one of the most casual ones at release.
Retail is mostly classic's philosophy followed for 14 years. But that means that necessarily, classic is more hardcore than retail.
Retail is mostly classic's philosophy followed for 14 years. But that means that necessarily, classic is more hardcore than retail.
Vanilla is extremely hardcore compared to retail, because it actually challenges you right from level 1 instead of waiting until the endgame. It's pretty hard to look like anything other than a hardcore game when you're comparing it to warfronts.
You're right that Vanilla is casual friendly but you are wrong as to why people say it's hardcore. It's true it's not mechanically hardcore but the tuning in the later raids is tighter than most fights since Wrath. The main reason people say it's hardcore is because you not only have to spend a lot of time to min max but you also aren't just handed rewards, you actually have to put in the time if you want to progress instead of getting things gifted to you by blizzard and in that sense it is hardcore. Not only that but leveling takes much more time and you can actually die easily while leveling in Vanilla.
1 Like
11/03/2018 11:35 PMPosted by KhalandinOnly reason it’s as hard as people think is because of the numbers (hit points, damage taken/given etc).
But numbers are important. A Defias Pillager in vanilla is "hard" because their abilities do enough damage to kill me. If I'm not careful with my surroundings or if I'm low on health/mana, then I can die.
That doesn't really happen on live - I've pulled 20 mobs and mowed them down as a warrior even with the 7.3.5 changes. Why? Because they do no damage.
11/03/2018 11:53 PMPosted by Thathotgirl11/03/2018 11:35 PMPosted by KhalandinOnly reason it’s as hard as people think is because of the numbers (hit points, damage taken/given etc).
But numbers are important. A Defias Pillager in vanilla is "hard" because their abilities do enough damage to kill me. If I'm not careful with my surroundings or if I'm low on health/mana, then I can die.
That doesn't really happen on live - I've pulled 20 mobs and mowed them down as a warrior even with the 7.3.5 changes. Why? Because they do no damage.
Good point but how are numbers more hardcore than mechanics. Plus you’re talking regular mobs, that’s easy both retail and classic. Takes raids for example, Heroic (mythic is a whole another level I won’t go into it) KJ and classic naxx, sure numbers wise naxx is harder but in that KJ fight, just one idiot to overlap against the whole raid and it’s a wipe. Numbers can’t be compared hardcore in classic because if you do you have to consider modern day wow mechanics hardcore as blizzard has taken wow into the opposite direction from extreme numbers into extreme mechanics. Neither one is more hardcore, and they’re just polar opposites of each other that contribute to a fight, which goes back to my original point, this game since 2004 has been casual either way, no harder, no easier except for convience systems.
Casual and hardcore can co exist by the way. Also #NoSharding
Pretty much this.11/03/2018 11:45 PMPosted by AranhodVanilla is extremely hardcore compared to retail, because it actually challenges you right from level 1 instead of waiting until the endgame.
In comparison to other MMOs of its time? No, Vanilla is as casual at they come. Ultima, DAoC, Everquest, EVE, etc, all are more 'hardcore'. But times have changed. Compared to the MMOs today, outside of a subsection of Korean MMOs that target a specific audience, Vanilla is hardcore.
11/04/2018 12:18 AMPosted by LôrdgrimPretty much this.11/03/2018 11:45 PMPosted by AranhodVanilla is extremely hardcore compared to retail, because it actually challenges you right from level 1 instead of waiting until the endgame.
In comparison to other MMOs of its time? No, Vanilla is as casual at they come. Ultima, DAoC, Everquest, EVE, etc, all are more 'hardcore'. But times have changed. Compared to the MMOs today, outside of a subsection of Korean MMOs that target a specific audience, Vanilla is hardcore.
I remember hearing hardcore Everquest players mocking WOW as “babies first MMO” back when WoW first came out.
Compared to retail, Vanilla is more hardcore, except for the hardest content maybe.
People say classic is hardcore because 90% of them never played it.
there is nothing inherently difficult about mechanics or the things you have to do in game to achieve specific results, no
that being said, you arent going to casually put in enough time and effort in order to gear yourself into such a position that you will be clearing naxx without preparation
the thing that makes vanilla difficult is that EVERYTHING is based around time and commitment, as well as wrangling 39 other people to all perform the same way under the same context, which is not an easy feat for 90% of guilds. people say vanilla is easy, and individually, yes it is, but guilds still wipe in MC and Ony every week, more so in bwl/aq40/naxx especially.
you, and 99% of the rest of the community will not see beyond 4 boss kills in naxx if you think you can play the game without feeling the need to commit to certain goals
that being said, you arent going to casually put in enough time and effort in order to gear yourself into such a position that you will be clearing naxx without preparation
the thing that makes vanilla difficult is that EVERYTHING is based around time and commitment, as well as wrangling 39 other people to all perform the same way under the same context, which is not an easy feat for 90% of guilds. people say vanilla is easy, and individually, yes it is, but guilds still wipe in MC and Ony every week, more so in bwl/aq40/naxx especially.
you, and 99% of the rest of the community will not see beyond 4 boss kills in naxx if you think you can play the game without feeling the need to commit to certain goals
Because it was a lot of people's first MMORPG and they didn't have anything to compare it to.
It’s very simple really. Classic is difficult compared to most games released in 2018. It is very easy compared to other MMOs that were popular around the time it was released in 2004
People that think grinding to 60 in Vanila is “Hardcore” have never played an MMO where boss spawns are located in PvP areas and all gear is dropped upon death.
People that think grinding to 60 in Vanila is “Hardcore” have never played an MMO where boss spawns are located in PvP areas and all gear is dropped upon death.
tell that to the guilds that disbanded after not being able to clear the first boss in bwl, or AQ40, or worse yet naxx.
Yeah, it's so casual that the stress from not being able to beat the casual content causes guilds to collapse. This doesn't sound like casual content my fine feathered friend.
Yeah, it's so casual that the stress from not being able to beat the casual content causes guilds to collapse. This doesn't sound like casual content my fine feathered friend.
tell that to the guilds that disbanded after not being able to clear the first boss in bwl, or AQ40, or worse yet naxx.
Yeah, it's so casual that the stress from not being able to beat the casual content causes guilds to collapse. Oh wait, that sounds alot like hardcore content.
That might sound really tough if your sole metric of comparison is modern day WoW. If you compare it to Ultimate Online or EQ, classic WoW was to those games as BfA is to Classic fans.
It’s very simple really. Classic is difficult compared to most games released in 2018. It is very easy compared other MMOs that were popular around the time it was released in 2004
People that think grinding to 60 in Vanila is “Hardcore” have never played an MMO where boss spawns are located in PvP areas and all gear is dropped upon death.
Man, I almost never ran back for my corpse in UO, by the time i got a res it was either bones or gone.... dying and losing everything you had is well hardcore. dying and losing 10% durability... !@#$ man I got this
11/03/2018 11:35 PMPosted by KhalandinClassic is not hardcore. It’s casual believe it or not. Blizzard stated that when wow was first released it would be a “easier to learn harder to master” mmorpg, yes they did say harder to master but they also said easier to learn. They also made death penalty’s easier compared to other mmorpgs like only having to walk back to your corpse. You might think, “but it’s way easier today in Bfa!” Mechanically no, numbers wise yes. and it will always get easier overall starting from classic they’ve always had the idea of improving quality of life and conscience every expansion that happens. So for people bashing retail for being so casual, go read back on what Blizzard said back when they were developing wow in early 2000’s about how it was gonna be a much easier mmorpg. This is also why WoW got so popular, it catered to casuals more so than other mmorpgs before wow and that’s why so many people play is because of the more casual systems and that’s why as time goes on they continue to improve those convience systems is to appease that same casual crowd from 2004. Only reason why wow was “harder” back then was.. well it was 2004, things always get easier in life as time goes on. Even then not everything in wow was even that hard either, the mechanics were so easy compared to today.
Only reason it’s as hard as people think is because of the numbers (hit points, damage taken/given etc). I could go on but this is getting long and it’s hard to explain this by typing but I’m hoping everyone understands my point, vanilla is no hardcore game in anyway, it’s just a time consuming slower paced game compared to today.
It was hardcore...if you look at it both as an RPG, which WoW barely is anymore, and compared to the lobby game, welfare gear, catch up mechanics, LFR/LFD riddled mess that is retail.
It was easier and more casual friendly compared to Everquest. And retail is much, much, much easier and more casual friendly than vanilla.
11/04/2018 04:31 PMPosted by DrazzilbIt’s very simple really. Classic is difficult compared to most games released in 2018. It is very easy compared other MMOs that were popular around the time it was released in 2004
People that think grinding to 60 in Vanila is “Hardcore” have never played an MMO where boss spawns are located in PvP areas and all gear is dropped upon death.
Man, I almost never ran back for my corpse in UO, by the time i got a res it was either bones or gone.... dying and losing everything you had is well hardcore. dying and losing 10% durability... !@#$ man I got this
I remember all the times I got a champion spawn boss to 1% health and then getting jumped by 5 !@#$%^-s and losing all my progress+my gear. That’s the difference between “hardcore” and “really grindy”.
Mostly because they never actually played a real hardcore game.