Why do people hate on warriors?

[Ronarion-lone-wolf]

@Aguy-grobbulus

followed up by the deflection of the lost retail player!

The follow up of player who can only play one class in one version of the game.

[Aguy-grobbulus]

@Ronarion-lone-wolf

The follow up of player who can only play one class in one version of the game

Ahhh, and the ad-hominem strawman apropos of nothing! You’re like a glossary of poor argumentation.

[Sthis-shandris]

Let’s take a look at Naxx for example. Of the ~429,000 parses, 180,000 of them are warriors. This could be another reason why people are so sick of warriors.

The best warrior is doing 1,300 dps. The worst warrior is doing 371. At their worst, the warrior is still outperforming 4 classes. The average warrior is pulling 800 dps. So the average warrior is outperforming every other class not in the top 3.

Idk if you’ve met the average player recently… but they’re TERRIBLE. Imagine putting everything into your toon, mastering macros, getting all the buffs and consumes, just to still fall short of the average warrior.

[Ronarion-lone-wolf]

@Aguy-grobbulus

@Ronarion-lone-wolf

play one class in one version of the game

Ahhh, and the ad-hominem strawman apropos of nothing!

I’m a warrior player only I’m allowed to make ad hominem attacks and use strawmen.

[Sthis-shandris]

@Ronarion-lone-wolf

I’m a warrior player only I’m allowed to make ad hominem attacks and use strawmen.

Level 60 Classic Era Warriors are the new level 10 alt forum trolls.

[Snipy-faerlina]

@Sthis-shandris

The truth is, at the highest level, every class is hard to master. But if we lower that down to “How hard do you have to try to be successful” we will find that there are several classes that need to play perfectly just to be okay during the raid. Warrior is not one of the classes.

Specifically with regards to Vanilla WoW, it might be interesting to dive into what you mean by this.

Here’s my gut feeling, if I had to guess, and I wouldn’t take that guess to the bank. I would maybe set up a test based on what we talked about above - rotational complexity on Patchwerk for optimal melee dps output for example - or dive into the WoWSims github codebase and try to understand Feral vs Warrior sims for Vanilla to get something we can actually measure… but if I had to guess:

I feel that Vanilla warrior in PVE is probably the most complex class to play in a PVE raid setting. It certainly is the class among those that I personally play (which includes druid) where I require the most macros, and have spent the most time learning and making macros, specifically for Vanilla warriors.

As an anecdotal aside, and obviously more relevant to tanking (which in my opinion is a regular part of playing either of the two classes) we can have a look at Elite’s Low Level Warrior tanking guide, aimed at players new to Vanilla Warrior and tanking at lower levels, as an introduction to the class:

Specifically, I’d look at the rotational and stance components and compare that to what someone might say about Bear tanking, which would be something like, “Stay in bear stance. Use Maul and Swipe if/when you have enough rage. Use Demoralizing Roar to keep the debuff up on mobs.”

@Elite-kurinnaxx

Core Tanking Abilities and Uses

• Charge - cannot be used in combat. Generates 15 rage (learned at level 4)
• Demoralizing Shout - costs 10 rage (learned at level 14)
• Revenge - must follow a block, dodge or parry - costs 5 rage (learned at level 14)
• Sunder Armor - reduces targets armor, causes high threat - costs 15 rage (learned at level 22)
• Defensive Stance - 130% base threat (learned at level 10)
• Tactical Mastery - Talent - requires 5 points in Arms to learn (optional)
• Taunt - Taunts target to attack you - melee range, 10 second cooldown (learned at level 10)
• Mocking Blow - Forces target to focus attacks on you for 6 seconds - melee range, 2 minute cooldown (learned at level 20)
• Blood Rage - Gives 10 Rage - 1 minute cooldow (learned at level 10)

There are some others, as mentioned above, such as Shield Block or Shield Bash, but these are not particular relevant for maintaining threat, which is the primary concern of a low level tank, and the focus of this guide.

Opening

Note: If you have 5 points of Tactical Mastery, you will keep up to 25 points of rage when changing stances. If you don’t have Tactical Mastery, you will want to make the best use of your rage prior to changing stances.

Ideally, open out of combat, so you can charge (generate 15 rage). This means you’re in Battle Stance, and have 15 rage. Sunder Armor costs 15 rage, Demoralizing Shout costs 10. If there are multiple targets, get all with Demo Shout then proceed to sunder your kill target and/or off targets, as needed. White hits also generate a good amount of threat. If you are in Battle Stance, and find threat is too low, swap to defensive stance.

[Sthis-shandris]

@Snipy-faerlina

Specifically with regards to Vanilla WoW, it might be interesting to dive into what you mean by this.

Sorry, it looks like we both posted at nearly the same time. Here is what I mean by this.

Why do people hate on warriors?

Let’s take a look at Naxx for example. Of the ~429,000 parses, 180,000 of them are warriors. This could be another reason why people are so sick of warriors. The best warrior is doing 1,300 dps. The worst warrior is doing 371. At their worst, the warrior is still outperforming 4 classes. The average warrior is pulling 800 dps. So the average warrior is outperforming every other class not in the top 3. Idk if you’ve met the average player recently… but they’re TERRIBLE. Imagine putting everythi…

[Snipy-faerlina]

@Sthis-shandris

Here is what I mean by this.

Let’s take a look at Naxx for example. Of the ~429,000 parses, 180,000 of them are warriors. This could be another reason why people are so sick of warriors. The best warrior is doing 1,300 dps. The worst warrior is doing 371. At their worst, the warrior is still outperforming 4 classes. The average warrior is pulling 800 dps. So the average warrior is outperforming every other class not in the top 3. Idk if you’ve met the average player recently… but they’re TERRIBLE. Imagine putting everythi…

I see what you mean. Yeah, a mediocre or poor performing warrior (let’s say 15% parsing) in leveling/dungeon gear without any enchants will outperform a Naxx geared BiS ret doing a perfect rotation (let’s say 99% parsing) might be a good example, if that’s what you mean, which I think it is.

[Ronarion-lone-wolf]

@Sthis-shandris

Level 60 Classic Era Warriors are the new level 10 alt forum trolls

He’s a green parsing warrior in molten core…molten core.

There’s a reason he thinks Gnomer was “too much like retail”.

[Sthis-shandris]

@Snipy-faerlina

if that’s what you mean, which I think it is.

It is. Now the difference between the worst warrior and the best warrior is vast, someone earlier mentioned that. And I’ll give them that. However, we have a lack of evidence showing us what the “worst” of each class is capable of.

For instance, we have 180,000 parses recorded for a warrior. But we only have 1,785 parses for a feral druid. We also only have 294 parses for an Enhancement Shaman.

It’s possible, that by the time we get to Naxx, the “bad players” have been weeded out, and have re-rolled to more successful classes. I think it isn’t a stretch to suggest that the bad druids, shamans, priests, paladins, and mages have rolled Warriors and Rogues, and are making up for the lowest quartile.

[Snipy-faerlina]

@Sthis-shandris

It’s possible, that by the time we get to Naxx, the “bad players” have been weeded out, and have re-rolled to more successful classes. I think it isn’t a stretch to suggest that the bad druids, shamans, priests, paladins, and mages have rolled Warriors and Rogues, and are making up for the lowest quartile.

If we’re now coming back to SoD, which I think we are, then I’d point out a couple of things, first making what seem like very reasonable assumptions is a very reasonable thing to do, but is also often incredibly and surprisingly inaccurate. Second, feral druid specifically in SoD, and more specifically on Alliance is actually the perfect role for a mediocre or under performing player to play.

This isn’t intended as a knock at feral druid, those who enjoy it, or even those who prefer to underperform (typically I’d point to people who insist on playing Ret in Vanilla - someone [Cauchy?] might point out that Ret is better than most things, and maybe he’s right). Anyway, because feral brings both Wild Strikes and Leader of the Pack, every melee party wants a feral druid.

I think what would be fair to say though is that there is a larger historical data set for warriors than for feral druids, but now we’re back to Vanilla, and idk how relevant any of that is.

[Sthis-shandris]

@Snipy-faerlina

If we’re now coming back to SoD, which I think we are, then I’d point out a couple of things, first making what seem like very reasonable assumptions is a very reasonable thing to do, but is also often incredibly and surprisingly inaccurate.

I was going by current vanilla raid logs. Feral is significantly easier to play in SoD vs. it’s Vanilla counterpart. But what you said here is true,

@Snipy-faerlina

Second, feral druid specifically in SoD, and more specifically on Alliance is actually the perfect role for a mediocre or under performing player to play.

I’ve seen ferals get paid to auto-attack in gnomer and just provide wild strikes. My own guild has even asked me if I would level my feral before my other alts just to provide it in ST earlier.

[Helesta-whitemane]

Warriors were great at pvp, and the best tank in the game. In pvp warrior with a pocket healer will be dominant. Otherwise they had a hard time vs kiters at least that is what i remember from vanilla times. What’s is OP are rogues. They always have an advantage on you, the element of surprise → stealth.

[Usforumboi-nazjatar]

@Kynsa-mankrik

Thats the warrior copium though, warriors have better skills then almost every other class, their runes are good in the way that they have tons of options, and while yes a bit boring, they didn’t really need much outside of prot, which seems to be getting ignored again. While not always first, by the end of each phase, warriors have been solidly in the top half of DPS, often dominating the leaderboards, this is before they really come into their own and their scaling takes over.

Are you like actually mentally unstable, warrior runes are “GOOD”, in what world lol.

@Kynsa-mankrik

The one area they are struggling a bit right now is in PvP, and the problem really isn’t even them, its that healers are completely overwhelmed and can’t keep up with the damage being so high, everyones including their own, and they have no way to slow down the essential one shots. But like everything else, many warriors make it all about them, ignoring the fact that healers, the thing that made them almost invincible gods in Classic PvP, are so marginalized many are bailing on PvP completely.

They struggle at mass aoe, pvp, leveling. Hell previous phases tanking was a massive issue and it still is. There are more issues but lets stop it there lol.

Like idk if you ever looked at the runes many classes got, but yeah. Dual wield spec, meta, shaman rune adjustment, just to mention a few, which all made em monsters and severely improves their classes or vitally changes them.

[Eastghost-crusader-strike]

nothing beats two cringelords stroking eachother off

[Helesta-whitemane]

Why so negative? . A least they are having a decent arguments and you’re not bringing anything to the table?

[Shevanel-crusader-strike]

This thread is like a Running of the Bulls. Get in the way of the bulls at your leisure and get ran tf over lmao. People are passionate about their class in here and I dig it.

[Tobbei-lava-lash]

The warrior zug zug, its the warrior zug zug

[Eastghost-crusader-strike]

Decent arguments? Every thread they try to start fights and then congratulate each other for their “win”, they’re insufferable.

For the topic on hand regarding why do people hate Warriors? It’s because they have never ending PTSD to Deep Wound’s DPS late game.

[Tobbei-lava-lash]

I made this thread cause i genuinely wanted to know why people hate on warriors, its kinda spiraled back and forth between topics lol