I came back to the game after a year break and have been leveling this RSham for fun in WoD dungeons. They’ve been going pretty well and I’ve been having fun learning something new. I have been noticing a trend though when doing some of the more challenging dungeons, specifically Grimrail Depot. Last night I spent an hour and half in that dungeon. I was the only one who queued into the dungeon and saw it through to it’s completion. I must’ve gone through 4 or 5 tanks (3 tanks alone on the second boss) and probably a dozen DPS. It was the same story every time. The tank would die once or twice to an instant wipe mechanic (i.e. the dash on the first boss) then quit. It didn’t matter if I explained what they needed to do or if they asked for help they still would just give up and leave after failing. That caused a domino effect and some of the DPS would leave.
The last tank and DPS crew I had weren’t entirely familiar with the dungeon and we wiped on the 2nd boss nearly instantly due to the mechanics. However they all stuck around. We went over mechanics and strategized on how to beat the boss. It took probably 8 pulls but we finally got it. It felt like we had accomplished something and all gotten better as players. It’s a tough dungeon with unforgiving positioning checks but it’s not unbeatable.
I can’t say why the previous players left. Maybe they rage quit, maybe they were afraid of ridicule, maybe the pool caught fire. IDK. I will say what I think is the most likely reason why they quit, they gave up either because they felt they couldn’t do the mechanics or were afraid of repeated failure and the potential ridicule/criticism it would bring.
I’ve seen and experienced how some members of this community act when things are going well. I can understand being afraid of that, but if you believe that every interaction will be negative then you’ll never be able to ask for help or improve. It creates a negative feed back loop within yourself and in the community. Don’t be afraid to ask for advice or guidance.
I guess a TLDR: Don’t be afraid to ask for help and overcoming adversity makes you stronger.
This is why people quit. They can get the deserter debuff, queue again, and do another entire dungeon in this amount of time. And if they kill one boss, they don’t get the deserter debuff.
Leveling my priest, I wound up leaving my fair share of Grimrail runs.
I’d never leave after a first boss. Nitrogg is where runs go to die, though.
I can’t tell you how many times a tank would get insta-gibbed or DPS wouldn’t do mortars. You can only bash your head against the wall so many times.
Hell, there was a full pug group I had, and we must have queued together for 3 hours. Tank was great. DPS was solid. We smashed through every other dungeon we got, pulled huge, handled mechanics, no problem. Even then, Grimrail was a nightmare. People just don’t know how to avoid the bad, don’t know how to do Nitrogg, and don’t know which mobs are the most dangerous.
And frankly I’d rather eat the deserter debuff because I can probably leave, get deserter, and finish the next dungeon that pops before we would have finished Grimrail.
I was tank and yea got insta gibbed three times. Everytime id go to watch the dps and if they were doing mortars cause the fight was taking 20 mins and i was like how is this possible id have my eye off the prize and get one shot by a mortar or w/e. Insta kills are lazy design
It seems like most newer players want to be carried, not actually do the mechanics.
You see so many stand in things they shouldn’t, just tunnel the boss (because, dps you know!) and then claim the tank or healer are to blame.
i must have gotten lucky, i took a 50 lock to 60 doing WOD TW, having no issues with players raging or quitting, hence the buff…luck of the draw. i think i got grimrail depot 3 times of the WOD mix. it was the only WOD dungeon where we did have players die including me at several points on the train not just one boss. its a roll of the dice if you get a pro parsing 233 addon johnny, or casuals just rolling thru
The game is too fast paced today, and everyone is in a hurry. Just recently came back to the game from a three year break, and my trouble is I rarely find players like you seem to be. I tried to learn tanking on one of my monks, since tanks are a bottleneck for queuing just as healers are, but ya know what, I gave that up real fast.
Not for any reasons you gave, but because everyone expects you to know every mechanic, they wanna race thru all the content, they whine if you wipe, which as a new tank, I am very likely to cause, and I guarantee every tank went thru that stage learning… They whine if you pull too much - they whine if you pull too little. They whine if you don’t know and take their preferred route to speed thru the encounter and get to the goodies.
It’s like people have forgotten this is a game, and they treat this like a job. Well, I’m not efficient, and this is on purpose - I want to experience the content provided, at least a few times, before we start racing thru it all on autopilot. Nope. Bad tank!
So, yeah, I usually just stick to healing, because I can usually keep up with that unless I stop to smell the flowers and the stupid tank has run off and got himself killed. (a frequent occurrence - people don’t wait for you to drink, or even check that you’re present before they engage the boss. Surprise, surprise, they die)
Because mechanics. A surprising number of players I run into don’t know them and are either unwilling or unable to learn mechanics while leveling. Same is true in Timewalking dungeons. They just want quick exp.
I can understand the sentiment. Old dungeons generally aren’t relevant to current content so why take the time to learn? However, I’m wiling to bet that now that M+ includes old dungeons a lot of them are gonna wish they took the time to learn when things were easy.
I don’t think people are ready for the absolute fluster cluck M+ Grimrail is going to be for those who haven’t taken the time to learn basic boss mechanics, never mind the less obvious trash mechanics that can and will wipe groups on mythic difficulty.
Fwiw I had tons of great experiences, especially with friendly players re-queieing. But that one dungeon, man. Pain.
For me, it’s less, “I want to race through content,” and more, “I want something to do.” If you’re pulling most dungeons one pack at a time, I have basically nothing to do as a healer but spam Smite, and the DPS probably are having a much less fun time.
Obviously there needs to be grace and I’m not saying pull the whole dungeon, but it’s better to practice with pulls that are going to actually threaten to kill you - at least a little - and that give the group something to do. It’s genuinely quite frustrating when your whole group can handle much, much more but the dungeon is taking twice as long because the tank has doubts and pulls with excessive caution.
To be fair, I think it’s less reasonable to expect everyone to know the mechanics for 6-10 year old dungeons that they may literally have never experienced before timewalking.
I totally agree that a lot of people are going to wish they’d spent some time practicing Grimrail now that it’s in M+, though. I can’t even really fault the playerbase too much. The inclusion of these two WoD dungeons is a bizarre game design choice.
I mean… The common denominator in this slow dungeon was OP and he was the healer… I have an inkling they weren’t needing to be carried… They just needed a competent healer.
In leveling dungeons, it’s not about learning mechanics (at least not for most people involved, that’s not why they do them), it’s about gaining experience. Wiping over and over, even if you’re learning at the same time, is not great experience so it’s better for players to cut their losses and requeue.
I get that, but look at it from my perspective; even on old content, if I was playing dps or healer, I was focused on my cd’s, watching your health bars, or trying to maximize my dps, not looking at the screen and movement a lot.
Iow, I didn’t learn the mechanics of where to pull what, and what the mechanics were. As for being excessively cuatious, yeah, the first couple times you can give me that so I can see what’s going on. After that, fine, we can go faster, but people tend to whine a lot when they get wiped, so it’s that that I’m trying to avoid - the toxic whining. I’ve had people in the chat actually berating me for not knowing this stuff because ‘the game has been around for 16 years!’
Well, that’s nice 'n all, but that doesn’t mean I had this perspective on the game, then, playing different roles, now does it?
Agreed. What suprises me is how often I explain the mechanics and people are still unable to pick them up, even if it’s something as simple as “hide if your targeted by x mechanic”. Makes me wonder if it’s a language barrier thing or if people really can’t be bothered to do more than pew pew and loot corpses. shrug
In Grimrail? The majority of wipes and damage in Grimrail aren’t really something you can heal through —
People getting caught by rush in the first boss
People standing in red circles in first boss
People not moving out of fire cone (and tanks not positioning fire towards the walls)
People not properly LOSing suppressing fire
People not getting out of Nitrogg mortars (they also seem to be bugged and dealing more damage than they should atm)
Grimrail has a ton of one-shots or near one-shots that can’t really be healed through/preempted by a healer. Nitrogg alone has like 3 different mechanics that can get someone killed that healers basically can’t do anything about, especially if DPS keep running in circles and in and out of LOS.
Yeah I dunno. The actual bosses on GD are pretty clear once you see them once or twice. Just a few of the adds that may not be very obvious on how to handle them.
Honestly, if you’re chain running instances, you’re doing it wrong.
There’s nothing wrong with mixing one in every so often for any potential gear and the related quests the first time you run something, but from a pure efficiency standpoint it is actually one of the WORST ways to try to level up, especially if you’re trying to run them with a mindset of getting to the cap ASAP.
Take this failed run as an example. If the OP didn’t eventually get another group that was willing to finish, then they wouldn’t have been able to do most of the associated quests for that instance. However, if they already had the quests done from a previous run, then the only XP they are getting is from kills and completion.
I can generally hit that LFG completion bonus in the span of about 4-6 quests out in the world, faster if I’m doing an expansion that has bonus objectives and/or world quests active on the map as I’m leveling.
Look, I’m not saying everyone needs to speedrun to the level cap, but if your goal is to get there fast without being dumb enough to drop $60 on a boost, then instances are the worst idea in the world. The 1-60 world record is just under seven hours, and even a casual player should be able to hit 60 in 20-24 if they at least know the basics and general flow.