Well being on mobile it’s difficult to quote properly and I shouldn’t have engaged. But applying the logic of you first 3 points to your closing statement it was my first thought.
Shaman leveling in classic.
I found my old toon level info on this site warcraftrealms
Got to level 25 on my shaman Jul 04, 2006.
Got to level 60 on my shaman Nov 07, 2006
And i still remember every painful level…
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Enhancement Shaman are actually FANTASTIC at leveling, one of the best if you use the right set up. Elemental is terrible at leveling regardless of talents or gear, as is Resto, obviously.
Enhancement Shaman is actually Fantastic at EVERYTHING until around level 45 but they nose dive from there on their way to 60 from S-Tier directly into F-tier for PvE situations.
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I think part of the reason is that blizzard has been putting out such garbage for years and got used to people quitting after a month or two
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I’m coming from the private servers and in all honesty I don’t think that there will be less players on Blizz servers than on the private servers. The most important thing I think is whether or not there will be new added content down the line. I am one of those people that do want new content added to vanilla such as not to change the mechanics of the game but to add things like new dances. I would also like a new MOBA style battle ground (15vs15) and new maps, raids added. But all in all if Blizz can keep classic level cap at 60 and keep the current vanilla game style that would be really good.
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I’m the same way about Paladins. I love Paladin class fantasy, and I played one in Vanilla, but I don’t want to eek out some tri-spec again to be mildly useful in dungeons. Not sure how much of Classic I will play, but will be going Mage this time for sheer QoL.
He was right the first time. Legion was pretty great overall.
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I’m just going to be another Warrior in the endless ocean of Warriors.
I get an unpleasant feeling in my gut thinking about the fact that there’s a non-zero chance that the “#NoChanges” people will win out and all we’ll ever really end up with is all the Private Server communities migrating to official servers.
Lol, people figure out ways to play the classes more effectively, including how to keep them viable up to the end of naxx, you are like “that doesn’t count”
Yes, most of the specs that are not viable in raiding, are fantastic at other things, like PVP. Ele shamans, feral druids, and shadow priests are fantastic at PVP.
The issue lies in the people that want to play their specific spec in literally every aspect of the game. And not just their class, they want to play a specific spec.
You don’t see very many warriors complaining about not being able to play prot in PVP or the fact that prot actually isn’t even the best end game tanking spec because of threat issues that goes to fury with a few points in prot to pick up defiance, last stand and shield block. Considering Feral druids blow them out of the water with threat if they use just 1 manual crowd pummeler charge on a boss.
Sure vanilla raids are easy by modern standards, the issue is that no one raids in modern wow comparatively, I mean you cant even get 100 guilds on alliance side to actually clear the content because, 1 the bosses are extremely hard and require you to farm a ton of gear just to be able to do them, and 2 the gear you get from them is pointless because you will replace it with normal/heroic gear if not quest gear on the next patch. Making all your progress a complete waste of time.
I mean seriously most people do not do the mythic raids now or raid at all because they feel like it is a waste of their time to kill a boss that is going to be just as hard to kill as the next tiers boss, for a reward that is not even going to help you kill that next tier boss.
Raiding has dropped off a cliff because blizzard is catering to the top .001% of raiders that get paid to kill bosses that put multiple weeks worth of raiding into 1 week by manipulating the system and have 4-6 alts feeding gear to 1 character, just so they can claim world 1st and get paid.
Then there is LFR and the joke that that is “tourist mode” being able to clear the content without any real challenge and no incentive to join a guild to do the content. You can basically do the same in normal mode and even heroic now since the game has boiled down to queuing for a raid and getting picked based on your item level. You do not even have to join a guild to do anything outside of mythic content when it is relevant.
It is a terrible system that I cannot stand, and killed the content I liked to do the most. Yet you sit there and act like “rose colored glasses” Please spare me.
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I’m basically on the same page as you for everything except this.
What you’re calling viable is still just “Another Warrior would’ve been better” we’re 15 years deep in Vanilla and if there was a way to make it worth bringing those classes, it would’ve almost certainly been found by now. What people have managed to do with some of the classes is interesting, but no, using a level 29 Weapons On Use effect to shore up a broken class, as you said, does not count. Nor does it count if you have to wear a boatload of gear designed and intended for other classes just to scrape by with completely inferior contribution.
I think multiple difficulties for things is a ridiculous and terrible system EXCEPT for the basic idea behind Mythic Dungeon Keys…
If you ask me, the design and tuning for Mythic raids in retail is closer to what the BASELINE difficulty should be and no content should have multiple difficulties unless it was maybe something along the lines of the Mythic Keys system.
I have NEVER like LFD and I absolutely despise LFR.
Most of what you said has nothing to do with my Rose Colored Goggles argument. They are not mutually exclusive.
most of the people who say that are retail wow players.
Ironically, retail seems built for people who didn’t like WoW originally… and they are two diff games.
There’s a lot of insecurity around the BFA crowd because A) they may not have interest in classic and enjoy bfa B) BFA is failing on it’s own quite well C) This is the first time real competition has emerged in the form of an alternate WoW to play and they are insecure their guildies/friends have chosen another path.
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I am looking forward to try get Benediction on a Priest.
Warlock sets look interesting, i pretty much only played a Resto Shaman because my mates all through Vanilla wanted me to heal them.
No one else wanted to heal, we had a few pugs and they were always horrid.
Shaman always OOM though, we didn’t really have youtube back then so maybe i just had the wrong gear…
What i did lean was you need a DPS class levelled up for Gold.
You cannot have just a Resto Spec Character and try have enough Gold for repair bills and respecs.
that is sort of my advice, this time around i will get a DPS class up first then my healer.
Sure, you can have 0 warlocks in a raid and just have them soulstone, or only have a class stand outside to buff, however all that gear that would go to that person, goes to waste if it drops. Actually, feral druids are not broken at all, except on specific fights, they are just as good as warriors for tanking if not better honestly filling a good niche. Most private server guilds brought at least 1, sometimes 2 feral druid tanks for that reason. Because having 8 warriors specifically for 4 horsemen, is a pain to gear for in a raid and if you can supplement your raid with 2 extra battle rezes and 2 innervates, as well as only have to feed gear to 6 warriors, great.
Is there a absolutely perfect world raid comp that will be better in most situations, sure, but then you have to gear that raid comp and having all priest healers can be problematic to say the least when it comes to putting gear out. You also aren’t going to have a plethora of extremely geared alts that you can just switch in and out and expect everyone to be OK with not playing their main that they want gear on every fight as you rotate everyone in and out of the raid.
The great thing is that you do not need that level of dedication, you can have less optimal specs. You can have a feral/resto player in the raid, go from off tanking with the proper gear, just fine, then swapping to healing gear and heal for the next boss and heal somewhat effectively.
Leading to the absolute best part, you can actually have a community and build friends. Instead of having to follow the “this is how fattboss tells you how to play and exactly what classes to bring” you can have a general idea of how the fight goes then adapt it to your raid and have fun with your friends doing the content in a slightly different way and still being able to do the content, and having it matter.
I think the best way I have heard it described was “in retail there is a ton to do and none of it matters, in classic there isn’t a lot to do but all of it maters.”
To touch on your point about mythic raids, they are absolutely not the best way to do raids, the reason for that is, you need to class stack and have alts available to do them effectively. There are lots of examples throughout the time that mythic has been available where bringing 1 of a specific class, will trivialize the content, and bringing more of that class will make it easier than not bringing it.
On top of that, there are times were bringing a specific class actively works against you defeating the boss. Say, bringing a resto shaman was actually a bad idea on a specific fight because you really needed to hit that enrage timer, and you could not afford to bring an extra healer, you needed to have that person that only played a resto shaman sit while you brought in the best healer and killed the boss. How does that guy that sat feel?
Now imagine if that happened multiple times throughout the content, because it happens all the time now and you seem to think that is a good BASELINE?
About like any of the broken specs throughout Vanilla did for the whole duration of Vanilla, I’d imagine.
Also, you can “be closer to” Mythic than not while still not being the faceroll difficulties that come before it.
the OP used private server numbers as an argument for classic holding millions for a long time. PS never actually had all that many people, at least not compared to modern games
its not really about that. its normal for most games to fall off at some point. this is a 15 year old re release that isnt getting anything new
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Getting gear in retail is a disappointment more often than not. I’ve done my mythic plus 10 keystone every week and I have gotten trash from my chests. I bought a random 445 Azerite chest piece that had bad traits and so was only a tiny upgrade from a 420. I get high ilvl gear with bad stats, on top of all the useless “epics” that clutter my bag from doing my weekly quests. Gearing in BfA is horrible. The Azerite essence system has been their best decision yet because you can at least target the essence you want and the RNG on top of RNG trash that retail has leaned on since Legion is diminished.
There are things I like about retail, but the process of gearing and increasing character power is not one of them.
So since you clearly know everything. How do you make it so everyone is useful in raids without homogenizing classes.
Because frankly i dont trust blizzard to balance. Ive seen what happens
I wouldnt say great, it just wasnt trash.
So since you clearly want to play a paladin and not feel useless, how do you do so, while keeping the spirit of vanilla.
its not easy like retail thee are no welfare epics.
It will be a novelty for a number of people, but I think Classic will find a fanbase.