Every patch it seems like there is brokenly imbalanced aspects of the game that we have to spend the rest of the tier dealing with and I don’t get why blizzard doesn’t make the changes in a more timely manner.
For example. Venthyr Holy Paladin out dpsing most damage dealers on bosses. No other healer even remotely comes close to the damage a Paladin can put out. I understand that there’s always going to be a “best”, and that would be fine if most specs were within a certain percentage of each other. But this is just absolutely broken and makes playing any other healer in m+ a waste of time.
Another example, blood dk. How is their damage just so insanely bad compared to other tanks to the point it’s nearly impossible to hold aggro with them and dps have to hold back so much more than with any other tank. Again it’s not even within a few percentage points of other tanks, it’s just far inferior. I could see the trade off if they made up for it in tankiness but again they are the weakest mitigation by far and most prone to being globalled. I’m 1450 IO and can barely get invited to 15s because of the stigma of how bad they are.
Then you look at stuff like boomies with convoke. Clearly broken and 1 push of a button they are topping meters with zero skill, yet some class covenant abilities literally make almost no impact. You also have fire mages that have been way better than other specs for well over a year now at least. Why do other specs rarely ever get their time in the sun? Look at poor enhance shamans, feral druids, warlocks in m+, etc… like how do some classes get to be meta in m+ 2-3 times over the years while others have never been there
Then don’t even get me started on the balance between tyrannical and fortified weeks. You have to scroll a ton of pages on raider IO before you even find a run with tyrannical. It’s been this way for multiple expansions now, like how is nothing done about this? Just don’t play every other week I guess? Tyrannical weeks have literally just become a waste of time to even log on because as soon as you wipe on a boss it’s almost a guarantee someone is leaving the key and wasting 4 other people’s time because they don’t want to actually spend the time learning the boss mechanics and would rather wait for a week that they can just kill a boss through their burst in under a minute.
I’m just tired of the whole “meta slave” mindset everyone has now and it all stems from blizzard being incapable of tuning things or fixing outliers. I’m not interested in rerolling my class every patch just to get invites to groups, and if I don’t I better enjoy the LFG screen as I apply and get declined to every key for hours on end. There’s 100% always going to be a “‘meta” don’t get me wrong, but that meta should be because it’s 1-2% better than something else. Not light years ahead and making it a joke to even play something else because it’s tuned so different.
Why can’t these changes happen in a timely manner and why do we have to wait 6+ months at a time when the data is clearly there that something is broken
13 Likes
for things like pvp, these things require a lot of data apparently…so they like metas to play out.
before you talk about the good old days - it was like that in their RTS games starting with warcraft 3 too, so it’s def an old school formula they’ve had.
also i disagree with your take on tyrannical. people hate it because the bosses are harder than trash. I agree with some of the timers needing to be tweaked on certain dungeons, but the affix itself, should if anything be a staple part of m+.
but yeah 
there’s lots of reasons that these things take time. trust me, i’d rather have them take time on balance, than rush things out.
It’s a small indie studio, gotta give them some time!
8 Likes
They’re running on skeleton crew while they reallocated their “talented” teams elsewhere.
How or why this is so is beyond the keen observations of anyone here.
1 Like
It’s a 4 minute cooldown. Although I do agree the damage they pump out is crazy. On the other hand they suffer a bit when prideful gets high stacks due to not having/wanting to hallow it. It’s kinda silly when you see a pally sitting at 14k dps after a boss dies.
I feel you on this one. Our blood DK swapped to frost and doesn’t really want to tank anymore due to how the class feels.
Both those classes are getting nerfed a bit on the PTR. I know blizzard doesn’t like to do balance changes mid patch as it’ll cause some raid groups to have to redo their rosters unless it’s something absurd such as Unholy DK (and I really think they overnerfed them a bit).
Funnily enough they nerfed tyrannical this expansion, although I agree it still feels horrible. I’ve started calling tyrannical weeks “1 and done” for the vault.
This line hurts in how accurate it seems to be. I had a 15 NW key die on the first boss because nobody killed the adds. Just about 2 hours ago, I had 2 people die to Xav via his stomp on a 14 (one shot, no healing through it).
Overall I do agree, I’d love to see them do frequent small changes every week or so instead of waiting for a patch for balance which can take months.
I agree they do need to let things play out and get a general feel for things but this isn’t like the old days anymore. There is so much data and statistics at their fingertips that never used to exist.
I mean when 70% of tanks at a 20+ key level are the same tank and you have some around 5% representation do you really need time to let it play out?
The problem is you’re stuck for an entire content tier with this broken crap with statistics smacking blizzard in the face and they do nothing about it.
I mean you look at the difference between vengeance DH and blood dk in m+ right now… is it within a small % of each other? Not even remotely close
What about holy Paladin compared to mistweaver monk? Not even remotely close again
Or fire mage compared to feral Druid.
Nothing in this game should be that imbalanced that you literally laugh at someone for playing that spec. Or that it’s been a meme for years now. That’s horrible game design
Also you say you disagree about tyrannical imbalance… there’s literally nothing to disagree about, go look at raider IO and tell me how many tyrannical keys you find in the top 500 runs compared to Fort
I think one of the problems is - they don’t have people dedicated to each class (as an ex-blizz dev pointed out). So there’s probably like 4 people working on all these classes…
you have to be playing these classes regularly imo to be able to balance them…i personally don’t think between like 4-5 people they have the time to play each individual class as much as your average player…so they are relying probably 100% on data for some of these classes.
that’s why i think it takes longer for certain classes to get attention than others. i think if people want the faster paced balance and such - we should have a bigger wow team period. it’s nothing wrong with the devs we have now imo.
Dev 1: “Hey Dev 2 did you run those enhancement shaman changes by the team?”
Dev 2: “What’s enhancement shaman?”
Note this also works for survival hunter.
1 Like
Ok what about this as an example. In 20+ level keys mistweaver monks are represented at literally 1%. How would there be any excuse from anyone at blizzard in charge of class balance for that. Then not only that, but they are also not even wanted for raiding either.
The xpac has been out what 7-8 months now? They did extensive beta testing as well and you’re telling me they couldn’t realize how bad this spec was? And there’s other specs in the same boat that’s just an example.
Feral druids, survival hunters, and ret Paladins literally COMBINE for 3% representation in 20+ keys. Which again would be fine if they are awful in m+ but great in raiding… but they aren’t they aren’t wanted in either aspect of the game.
honestly idek. baffles me tbh but my guess is they just lazy. OR my other guess is they waiting until the expac strings along and power creep for other classes that can actually benefit from more gear/stats. really makes no sense though i mean just balance it every week do some slight nerfs doesn’t need to be extremely drastic nerfs just something and see where it goes then.
also makes no sense cause if something is really broken they will hotfix tf out of it pretty fast.
part of the issue with keys that i have personally experienced over the course of this season - is how much of an impact flavor of the month has had on classes. there was a time where i was literally waiting up to 50 min to get an invite because nobody wanted a druid…had nothing to do with whether or not i was capable of defeating the key at ___ level or not.
so it’s tough with mythic+ in my personal opinion. I have a key listed right now, there’s 13 people signed up, of various classes…my choice is usually based on io, which doesn’t really reflect how “good” a certain class is imo, it just means they got maybe more opportunity to play. so yeah, the monk overall won’t get invited over the DH with the much higher score.
anyway I guess that’s an entirely different discussion, i just think that it’s very nuanced at the top of mythic+, because many classes aren’t even getting a chance to play at those levels, so they don’t even have the data. It wouldn’t be like that with a solo que type of m+ system in the LFG tool and the whole “non-meta” tournament are ways we can start seeing how well some of those classes actually are. because i don’t think those charts are representing it well.
(btw i agree with anyone that says this is an issue) - i just don’t think it’s any of the team’s fault right now. i really don’t think they have the manpower to go any faster.
i mean people were saying feral affinity druid was “bad” because it was under represented in high level keys…now a streamer starts using it again, and you might see a shift in meta…that’s why it’s so difficult
They have commented on it earlier in SL. The main thing is they don’t want to destroy the meta in the middle of it. So people don’t regret the choices they made on which classes to focus on if it suddenly gets nerfed mid-progression and such. Don’t want to shake up the boat with every wave.
They prefer waiting for new tier seasons for the major balancing changes because it’s a reset on gear and progress, a good time to mix things up in a more dramatic way. In between patches it’s usually lighter tuning or on the really game breaking outliers. But that’s the gist. It’s not out of laziness, it’s being intentionally cautious.
Not my opinion, I’m just the messenger. 
1 Like
They usually avoid nerfs when guilds are basically depending upon those classes to do certain bosses or mechanics (with Wild Spirits on SLG being the one exception since that got nerfed very heavily).
Think back to 8.3: How in GOD’S NAME would you nerf Mythic N’zoth in the middle of the tier if you nerfed Fire Mages and Destro Warlocks heavily mid-tier? Fire Mages and Destro Locks were so essential for that fight not just numerically but in terms of how those numbers played out that no numerical nerf would’ve been a big enough nerf to make up for what nerfing Fire/Destro would’ve done.
Truly wish they would balance these outliers out.
Meanwhile they are busy censoring some words used in chat…
Keep in mind, the “balance” rarely matters for most content except PvP and the tip-top of CE raiding.
Why bother when it effects so little of your populace?
Not to mention, the sheer difficulty of balancing between various forms of content. Something may be balanced for PvP, but is garbage in PvE, ect ect.
MMORPGs will not - and never will be - as balanced as people want them to be because there are so many factors deciding things, that even just knob turning isn’t enough. Core mechanics that are good for PvE won’t work for PvP and vice versa.
Despite this, our current devs are also freakishly arrogant.
Look up Magdalena and the private forums drama. Look up BM monks and how they were treated back in the - i think - Legion beta when they were telling some of the best players in the world they’re “playing things wrong”.
Other MMOs have balancing issues, but also not competitive features - seasonal ones, at that - and a dev team that refuses to listen to the same people they were before they got hired.
We aren’t even into the first major content patch of the expansion and you seem to think the game should radically change?
We aren’t in 9.3. It hasn’t been a “long time”
I agree that during the first 6-8 weeks of a patch that they should do minimal changes because yes it would mess up progression and strats for guilds going for high cutting edge placements. But after 6-8 weeks when there’s clear outliers it’s time to deal with that IMO.
Like I said earlier, there’s specs that have literally been bad for many expansions in a row to the point they are memes.
Watching the MDI and seeing a holy Paladin top damage on boss fights when it’s literally up against the worlds best damage dealers is a joke. Like you’re telling me a mage being played at a 100th percentile should be losing in damage to a healer and that it’s working as intended and it’s ALL because of 1 ability, literally 1 button being pushed attributing to the vast majority of that damage.
It’s just frustrating every single patch/expansion having those couple of classes that are brokenly OP for the majority of it and blizz just doesn’t care, yet others NEVER get their time in the sun
2 Likes
Well season 1 is about to be over.
The changes are not shaking up and make the meta fresh.
Like WHY DO FROST DKS HAVE PVP MODIFIERS ON 4 ABILITIES EFFECTIVELY REMOVING THEM AND RENDERING THEM USELESS!?!?!?
And they’re about to remove Heartstop Aura… as well as removing all the strong points that Frost Dks have.
Like… WHAT???
I seriously hope this round of changes aren’t final else I might not play for good this time.
That’s the most ignorant statement I’ve heard. So you’re telling me prot warriors weren’t brokenly OP for m+ for 8.1, 8.2 and 8.3? You’re telling me DH tanks aren’t going to be meta in 9.2 as well as 9.1?
Or you going to tell me that resto druids weren’t meta for literally the entirety of BFA m+? Or that mages haven’t been in the meta for multiple seasons in a row now?