That’s interesting but worshiping the literal Dawn Star is different from worshipping The Devil. Like, it makes sense for a sun-loving society to be big on the first bright thing they see before the sun comes up, but why does that have to be Skulls McGee, The Torture Torturer of Hate and Malice?
Exactly but some catholic people here cough think it’s devil worship when it’s not
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorus_(morning_star)#:~:text=Phosphorus%20(Ancient%20Greek%3A%20%CE%A6%CF%89%CF%83%CF%86%CF%8C%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%82%2C,means%20%22dawn%2Dbringer%22.
Historically Lucifer has also been iconographied as Jesus, that’s why there’s mention of Dawnbringer comotheology in the Bible.
This was the reason it was easy for Catholic missionaries to convert Natives to Christanity. Leading to the genocide of native people by the Catholic Church.
Forgive me for sometimes being hypercritical of Catholicism and why someone gloating about thier connection to Catholicism’s “messy history” would be upsetting, as an indigenous person. And why it’s poor optics that this person would continue a harassment campaign.
To incorporate that into WoW would be intentionally portraying a depiction of native beliefs after they had already been perverted by colonialism, right? I don’t think that’d be a good thing to do. I’d be more interested in what those beliefs were before they were demonized.
I think it’d also be a tired story beat. The horde’s already had a number of instances of “you’re wrong” hammered into its themes over and over, which is partly why this thread exists in the first place. It’d be the third time a horde religion would be demonized this way too, if it did happen.
The first being the orcs’ original shamanism being perverted, but I think that one can be given a pass because the story didn’t portray every orc falling for it, it’s early in the franchise’s life, it was part of trying to invert their villain trope, etc. But it also happened again by having Vol’jin being manipulated to put Sylvanas in charge, and that’s when it gets to “fool me twice, shame on me” territory.
If the game was to finally explore an undeveloped aspect of horde race spiritualism only to villainize it AGAIN, that would just feel mean-spirited. Especially when the reason why An’she worship was supposed to become more prominent again was because the tauren were trying to reclaim their own beliefs from what would’ve been the equivalent of night elf religious colonialism.
6 Likes
OMG you’ve gotta stop. Please. For everyone’s sanity. Come on. We were almost back on topic for five minutes.
It’s also just really sad how much cool stuff the writers could do with Shamanism, especially in this particular expansion but they’re like “shaman who?”
5 Likes
I wonder if someone who pathologically lies about another person is capable of being honest about themselves
Wonder if there’s any evidence to the beliefs of All The Plains Indians (which of course, all Amerindians of a given ethnic umbrella have the same stories) she’s claiming
Or maybe she read one book titled Black Sun by a North Native woman without realize she based it on South Natives myths, not North Native myths
Sure is a mystery
Anyways I’m out, have fun with the biggest liar in the community
1 Like
I’m kinda glad that didn’t happen. I feel like it would just ruin tauren lore. Of course I’m of the opinion that everything touched by shadowlands gets ruined so.
4 Likes
I tried to explain that -Fallen Lightlord An’she and his return to the light would be the return to original myth.
The orginal concept of the dark sun in cosmological theology is a solar eclipse. The sun goes dark, defeats darkness and returns to the light.
An’she was wounded by the void. Narru “bleed” light when injured, pushing them into a Void state, but even void Naaru can, be brought back to the Light.
Are you ready to listen to me now?
This concept isn’t even only applied to An’she, The Embrace discribed a lunar eclipse where the White Lady, “usurped the sun” where she became the blood moon driven by wrath and revenge for losing her child, thus creating a famine that nearly wiped out all of Azeroth.
Sun priests of the Arakkoa, who have Apexis knowledge, can use the power of the sun to deprive justcars of their connection to the Light idefinately. And cause droughts that burn the crops.
I hope this is further explored in the lore. The light and the void are dulaistic and cosmotheology is the core of WoW’s mythology.
The Apexis pre-date any other race in the Great Dark Beyond, predate Tauren or Night elves, and I think there’s a lot to be learned from them but they mysteriously vanished.
OK but wouldn’t this be a bad thing to equate the native sun god to the devil in game, then? Like, you’re native, wouldn’t you WANT the sun god to NOT be the Christian devil?
3 Likes
It’s a real double pounder when we just came off of an expansion that ignored the spiritual aspects of shamanism, too. Now we have one that heavily features the elements again and still nothing. Even druidism got some minor attention (and most likely even more once the greens roll into focus) but the only real horde-facing class is feeling left out.
9 Likes
Personally this is what I liked the most about legion. It focused on classes, class focused lore is great. I dislike when the game acts like the classes don’t exist.
3 Likes
I think the problem here is that we never got any indication of Zovaal ever being good. To the player, he wouldn’t be “returning” to the light but being indoctrinated into it. And that’s assuming the playerbase could get over what he’s done, and they understandably can’t even manage that with Sylvanas so there’s no way he’d be given more grace for doing worse with less backstory.
2 Likes
Imagine a side expansion-long storyline where perhaps Muln, Nobundo, Mylra, and Rehgar all have specific missions to deal specific elements and try to learn how to reverse the damage that the Primalists caused while maybe even discovering primal elemental lord souls that the Primal Incarnates were infused with? And so they work with the Kirin Tor to figure out a way to release those souls and bring them peace.
Would be a good way of really showing the importance of shamanism and also show how it’s on par with a magical society like the Kirin Tor.
4 Likes
shamans still paying reparations for having thrall as a main character in cataclysm 
6 Likes
Yeah, though I’d rather someone other than Rehgar show up. I have no idea why Blizzard’s so attached to using Varian’s former slave owner as a character, haha.
4 Likes
They’d wanna redeem him I bet or retcon him as a slave owner or something.
I’m still just stuck on his line in HOTS.
“Heroes of the storm? I AM THE STORM!”
Oof…
But I’m totally down with replacing him with a Panda Shaman too 
2 Likes
We need more pandaren in the horde side of things in general. I miss them. I cherish them.
4 Likes
Is the evil defeated
1 Like
Seems to be. Temporarily anyway. No more summoning rituals for a while
1 Like