The difficulty of heroic dungeons is essentially indiscernible from mythic 0. You get 346 gear from doing normal dungeons. 346 gear is enough to easily do every M0 dungeon in the game without any real difficulty unless you are pulling half the dungeon.
Yet you literally can’t queue for heroic, which gives you 359 gear until you are fully geared in normal dungeon gear.
This essentially makes heroic dungeons only really exist for people who are either too anxious, or too lazy to make an M0 group in the dungeon finder. This puts M0 in a weird, annoying place where the only barrier to entry is waiting for enough people in 330+ gear to jump in the premade group finder. Unless it’s peak time, there are generally only 2-3 M0 groups in the group finder at any given time.
So why not just let people queue for M0 at this point? It isn’t anything that can’t be completed by a pug of randoms in 340 gear, so why not just replace heroic with M0’s?
28 Likes
Yes.
You understand the purpose of heroic.
34 Likes
That’s my point. It’s a terrible purpose.
7 Likes
“boo hoo I want to say I am super player and make fun of that which is not designed or intended to my use as something useless, because I complain about Blizzard but I too think I know what is best to all players”
Yeah, we know your point. You are not the first, the last, or among few.
31 Likes
Or some of us just think mythic is dumb and run the heroics a few times because we didn’t see all the dungeons during leveling and it’s slightly more entertaining than normals. Plus it’s a super easy way to get those runs on my healer that sell for 1.5k a pop
9 Likes
Heroics serve their purpose as a gearing-up/jumping-off point at the beginning of expansions. Don’t see the point of removing them.
Queuing for regular mythics is another matter entirely. One that would basically be entirely dependent on the tank that joins. Because M0 can still be very tough for a group still learning the ropes. Something Heroics don’t really have to deal with, as they can mostly be 3/4-manned by people in level-appropriate gear.
5 Likes
Yeah that is definitely my point. I definitely said literally anything to that effect.
My point is that mythic and heroic are so close in difficulty that the only purpose heroic serves is being basically a less rewarding mythic 0 that you don’t have to use the premade group finder to queue up for. I feel like you think I’m trying to exclude people, or take literally anything away. I’m not. My point is that mythic 0s are pointlessly exclusionary. Stop putting words in my mouth.
4 Likes
Hot take.
M+ 0 should be doable via Dungeon Finder.
35 Likes
Because those mythic jerks don’t want dungeons in the LFD.
4 Likes
They didn’t even do that as you’ll find way better gear doing world quests in DF.
2 Likes
That’s my take too. As more and more people get to higher item levels, it becomes harder and harder to get M0 groups AND harder to get heroic groups. Given how close heroic and m0 dungeons are in difficulty, why not combine them?
It is one of the most time efficient ways to get some quick ILVL bumps when you are rocking 340 gear, but the fact that the pool of people doing 0s and heroics are so small makes farming WQs for titan matrix IV’s and raw gear pieces more worthwhile.
If you want to get gear, doing M0s is more worthwhile than heroic. If you want to quickly speed through a dungeon for a quest, normal is better for that. Why ever do heroic EXCEPT for the fact that getting into an M0 group is more active. Why not just let you queue for M0?
Doing some basic math and comparing abilities from M0 and heroic, M0 is a little less than 25% harder than heroic. This might seem like a lot, but considering how undertuned heroics are in the first place, it is barely a hike in difficulty at all. The only barrier to making M0 content queue-able is the weekly lockout on M0 dungeons, but that is only necessary in the first few weeks of an expansion to prevent people from getting fully geared in pre-raid bis in the first week. Why not just turn off the weekly lockout after the raid comes out?
6 Likes
Back in BfA I argued that M0 should be in the queue. Back then people actually got seriously upset and reported me into oblivion for it. Now? No one cares if Blizz put M0 in the LFG. The fact that no one cares yet they still haven’t done just shows Blizz isn’t really listening to the current playerbase.
9 Likes
Hotter take - LFG should be removed from all but leveling content.
You are not supposed to feel comfortable just queuing content. WoW is an MMO - you are supposed to be pushed out of the nest and into the experience of meeting new players and making friends. Stop fighting it. Stop fighting to be anti-social and let yourself become friends with people - I promise you that you will have more fun playing WoW if you have friends to play WoW with.
7 Likes
Wasn’t mythic intended to replace heroic anyways? I never understood that. Heroic is the difficulty I always skip. It feels useless being there.
I use it for tank bags , you get 1k gold + 2 - 4 augments which sells for 4 to 8k gold 
Heroic dungeons become useless after like week 1.
Yes. M0 exists to replace the role that Heroic used to have. People wanted more challenging 5-man content, Heroics existed for that purpose. Wrath foolishly included Heroics in a queue, which resulted in a nightmare in Cata when they tried to push challenging 5-man. M0 was invented in WoD in order to bring back the experience of doing a somewhat challenging 5-man experience for beginner players.
Heroic only exists because Blizzard’s philosophy is “do not upset Jimmy, we must always maneuver around crying Jimmy rather than confronting him even if it causes a problem for the game”. LFR is in the same boat, where Blizzard has overtime successfully marginalized LFR because they do not have the ability to outright remove it without sending Jimmy into a crying fit.
2 Likes
I miss catas heroics.
They felt more punishing and satisfying then doing a Mythic 0 in fresh / normal dungeon gear.
10 Likes
The community says otherwise, trying queuing in LFG in say 370 gear when it’s a “Do 4 mythic dungeons and get a heroic item from the raid week” and see how many let you in their group or decline you.
It’s a broken system .
5 Likes
Actually I couldn’t tell the difference in difficulty in all three normal ,heroic and M0.
Normal - I pulled all mobs and killed them
Heroic - I pulled all the mobs and killed them
M0 - Yupp…I pulled all the mobs killed them 