And give myself three extra renown grinds on every character i want to play? Sounds amazing.
Then don’t do it.
Free choice is amazing like that.
Well thats weird, arent all these threads talking about how anyone with the wrong meta will never get into groups? It sort of seems i have to… you know, just to access the basic game.
Also, i need to now know the one true meta because since everything is open, there will be a clear winner in the meta game and i’ll have to run that lest i never be invited to groups ever again. So again, i sort of have to judging by the waling and gnashing of teeth on these forums and in these threads.
If they opened up covenants overnight, that would automatically quadruple the content you’d have to get through for your content. That’s 12 soulbinds instead of 3. That’s 4 covenants to max renown for.
That’s just one lowly character. Any alts you want to fire up now have to do this all again. 12 soulbinds, 4 covenants to max renown.
You’d best be careful what you wish for.
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I keep telling them. Over and over. Theyre demanding another Bfa. They dont listen (whilst also pretending that covenants are the next azerite armor because the beta testers pointed out this system was trash back then and theyre doing this with covenants in the beta as well, thus its the exact same thing!). Never mind that Blizzard are very consciously moving away from AP grinds. But in one ear and out the other!
BUT BLIZZARD!!! we want BfA again! Unlock the covenants! Give us more sideways grinding on every character we play. Give us a clear meta based on incredibly complicated sims requiring the use of PAID resources because no normal person could possibly eye ball it. Give us 12 sets of conduits to grind. And then give us another 12 when we move up a tier! Then when we’re happy on our main, let us do the exact same thing again. Let our alts also do the same boring grind on all four covenants. Give us as much boring, dull, repetition as possible! Because if you dont, no players will ever be invited to another group, ever! Release me from my shackles! Let me be free to put on these other far more annoying shackles!
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Casuals are the majority of the play base… if they all quit tomorrow then Blizzard would instantly start to layoff a lot of WoW devs.
Why? Is there a requirement to do all 4? I’m really only interested in having access to the best ability for tanking and DPS since I do both. At most I’d need 2.
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Well, no. That’s not how it would work. A single player wouldn’t have to grind out all 12, really they would be able to prioritise a single Soulbind which best fits them without having the punishment of swapping to another Covenant if it doesn’t work out for them. Their progress, their power and their optimal gameplay isn’t diminished by the desire to experience something different once or twice.
A cutting edge player may feel the need to have 4, 5, 6 different soulbinds across all 4 covenants, but they’re a unique case of being overloaded with choice though that’s offset by the fact they don’t need multiple characters to achieve that, just the one.
Again, a character wouldn’t need to grind out all 12 soulbinds, just the 1 and they’re not punished by making a poor initial choice.
For which encounter? Single target? Aoe cleave? Arent you going to also be wanting to make sure you’re ‘optimal’ for multiple specs and load outs since its now pretty much mandatory. If you CAN load out 12 soulbinds, and you can load them out specifically to boost you in different types of content, wouldnt it behoove you to do exactly that lest someone with a more optimal set up steals your spot and you never get to group again?
As for the single soulbind… hasnt part of the angst on these forums been expressly about how you need to be optimal in a range of encounters, playstyles and specs that a mere three soulbinds could never hope to provide. Yet here we are talking about how only ONE is fine! Color me shocked and amazed! Some of you hardcore players really dont take this game remotely serious!
I’m not gonna read 500 posts, but the OP is kind of shorted to think that having choice is synonymous with min/maxing.
The problem with being ‘locked’ into something in this game is that a lot of people already ‘lock’ themselves by just copy/pasting advice instead of applying it to their playstyle. At the end of the day, you’re a person. If you see something cool, you might want to do it or at the very least look into it. That’s all its about. Some covenant abilities have a lot of potential in pvp and look like crap in pve situations and vice versa.
Play the game first and use classes as a tool instead of this definition of how the game should be played. We can change specs/talents for that very reason, covenants aren’t an exception. They’re just another throw-away system to engage in for 2 years and should be treated at such.
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I’ll skip the flirting. Lets get to the punchline.
If Blizzard defend covenants being locked its suddenly the worst possible world for every player out there. Groups will never be formed, players will never complete content. The game will die. Not just the absolute hardcore game, but all of it. Everyone not running the meta will suck and forever be shunned by the playerbase for picking the wrong covenant.
If players petitioning for covenants being opened have their logic thrown back at them about the demands of the meta, suddenly no one NEEDS to do all this renown grinding. No one really needs 12 soulbinds, no one needs 4 covenants, they just need 2. Maybe even one. They’ll be absolutely fine, no one is going to stop them getting groups. They arent playing the hardcore game of the top end where the meta is actually important.
Nah. I’m a filthy casual. Good one for tanking and good one for DPS is enough. Max 2 covenants and 2 soul binds, with the option to change when Blizz nerfs stuff into oblivion.
Lay off the energy drinks my guy.
While that’s not really my need, I’d like to see it available for those that want to play that way.
Even if you don’t care about the potential performance differences between them, there’s still a lot of issues with the system.
Also, you realize casual players can still do high-level content, right? Casuals aren’t bad or uncaring by default.
You made this post which contradicts this statement.
Faints dramatically
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This. I’m as casual as it gets because I don’t do pathfinder, I only ground a few ARs that I felt were must have, my only pieces above 445 are from warfront and ah. All my glorious 445s are from emissaries and assaults. I’m in a guild but I don’t do much other than barely socialize.
That said, I’m not aggro. I’m sticking to one covenant per character no matter what they do. I can generally only find one that makes sense for each class I play.
As a true casual I don’t take the game seriously enough to give a good god damn what other’s do in it. Everyone could have a brutosaur but me and I wouldn’t care. I only worry about myself then maybe my friends/guildies. Everyone else is just an AH post to me, so how they operate in other areas means nothing.
I do understand the anxiety of mythic type players that use the io. They don’t want it more toxic than it already is. As a casual player I find such a system to be a guaranteed anxiety trigger for me so I don’t do that stuff. So I guess I understand why some people might care, I just can’t be made to.
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Im glad i conveyed the melodramatic nonsense of it all. It was my intention.
I’m a super casual. I’ll pick the covenant I like and stick with if because I don’t raid or do M+. If the covenants go live as they are now if will have absolutely no effect on me whatsoever.
That said, I can step back from how I play the game and look at how the system will affect the game as a whole. See how this will affect those who are more hardcore than I am and how it will affect the culture of the game and its future. I can also see how changing it to a more easily swappable system will have no effect on how I will play the game.
All I see are negatives when i look at it. There are those who tout that it makes the game feel more like a proper RPG. But they are talking their feelings and those feelings aren’t universal. They are also countered by arguments that are much more grounded in reality and are far wider reaching.
That is why I am personally against the direction covenants are going in. The game will be worse off if it doesn’t change and if it does change it won’t effect me.
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Not quite. Some soulbinds would be better than others in any given fight. Which ever soulbind is deemed meta for an encounter or two would be expected. You don’t have the right soulbinds plural, your spot gets taken by anyone who does. It might be 4-5 soulbinds for type of content. Then 4-5 soulbinds for another. And when the next raid tier releases, guess who has to get ALL of those soulbinds back up to date.
Vs the current incoming system: You don’t have the meta covenant for a mythic or a raid (which won’t be the same thing), those players will leave you behind. Whereas, the rest of the community, the vast majority of players, can still group with you. And now you can still clear content. If you fear the bads, you still have raiderio to screen players.
You might not be able to get into an all Venthyr group, but most players can’t either. You can still group up with everyone else.
Or you can join the Venthyr, ‘lock’ yourself off of raids, and have a frustratingly small pool of players to group with.
A player who’s meta for dungeons can still join a sub-optimal raid group. And a meta raider can still join a sub-optimal dungeon group.
And no, EVERYONE can’t all be Venthyr at the time you apply for a M+. By definition, there will be groups that aren’t Venthyr. You can still time your keys without the portal jump.
Your example is the most extreme form of min-maxing that there is with this system and you know, absolutely know, that the vast majority of players will not need to require that amount of investment.
And even your ludicrous example is still better than the reality that most people who want to be 100% optimal for every encounter, every piece of content will face so I guess well done there I guess.
This is why we’ll never get anywhere in finding a middle ground with these systems.