One of the things I find so aggravating about the constant debates between people asking for changes and the #nochange brigade, is the lack of coherent understanding as to what made the experience what it was, back in the day.
I keep calling it “the spirit of vanilla”, and in this case, it is very much the horde and the alliance murdering each other in towns. This experience was what formed the image of world pvp in people’s minds, and it’s what most of us look back fondly on when we consider our pvp moments.
The worst argument, and one I keep seeing regurgitated in this thread, is the “if we allow x, then y”, as if you could equate taking the best state of world pvp from the classic era and preserving that, instead of the broken one that came later, to buffing specs that were obviously too weak, which would legitimately break the classic experience.
Dis-ingenious, at best. Pathetic, at worst.
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The fact that Blizzard ended up permanently removing DHKs seems to settle the argument, to me.
DHKs should not be introduced into classic. Blizz admitted DHKs were a failure, and got rid of them.
Let’s not bring the failure back just so we can learn all over again what a miserable failure it was.
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Well, hello there, April, May and June.
I suppose it is time to reintroduce yet another argument to the forums.
Definitely a troll, because honor IS LEFT OUT in phase 1.
@Meatballs
Yeah, but the moment phase 2 starts–and PvP battlegrounds begin–DHKs would exist, according to original Classic.
We’re hoping this retro version of Classic will just skip DHKs altogether, because Blizzard ultimately admitted DHKs were a failed concept, did NOT work as intended, and would be permanently removed and never allowed to return because, again, they were epic FAIL.
We’re just hoping Blizz won’t subject us to DHKs all over again, simply because for 18 months or so they WERE part of the original Classic…
Oh I know. I was replying to someone and forgot to quote 
I also didn’t realize it was a thread ressurection.
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It lives… Again! Death to DHKs!
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Blizzard decided to go with the non 1.12 mount costs… so I’d be quite fine with them going with the non 1.12 no DKs. If you’re going pick and choose what to do, at least pick good ones. DKs were a big failure, and brought nothing to the game.
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Once you have your gear you can pretty much do and kill anything you want. Dishonorable kills are only a deterrent for someone who cares about their rank. Even then it discourages world pvp because a serious player would rather choose to go solo rather than risk a single idiot in his raid who doesn’t know any better. A terrible system that even most ‘nochanges’ guys would be relieved to see go.
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Long time casual player here. Started in classic very late in the game back in the day. I don’t have all this empirical evidence and lofty “facts” like most here. I would say my choice is to have Dishonorable kills they way you explained it and every time someone 5 levels above another play kills penalize them. Ganking lowbies is super annoying an not really good for the game. Fine do it but you get a penalty, seems legit and reasonable. Typically its grown men playing in their mothers basement with no job that like to run around in the lower lvls killing newbies. That… that is a factual statement as i know a few. Good day
Yeah you sound casual all right, go play on a pve server you goofball.
Was it also not in Vanilla? Yes
Should it also not be in Classic? Yes, in current 1.13 p1 there are no DHKs dont add them. #NoChanges
That should be the end of the story.
Two can play this stupid game, gnome. I too am a master or mental gymnastics.
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People were less willing to quest wreck if they risk DHKs.
As far as I’m concerned, you should get DHKs for killing players 10+ levels lower than you as well.
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Yea that would be a terrible idea for multiple reasons, which even Blizz with their legendary lack of foresight foresaw.
How would you like to be randomly farming mobs for gold or whatever and some random level 10 runs into your AoE repeatedly.
That just flips the griefer role from higher level to lower level, except in this case, there’s literally no way to fight back because fighting back incurs a penalty.
At least when a higher level griefs a lower level, the lower level guy has the option of leveling up and taking revenge.
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I think there are probably ways to tell who threw the first punch.
If that were the case DHKs would never have killed city raids and town take overs the way they did in Vanilla.
The problem was always the fact that the system 100% did not care who accidentally (or purposely) Blizzarded that level 10 Bread Vendor.
Everyone in the group got slapped for it.
On top of that, many quests NPCs weren’t even tagged civilian, meaning it didn’t deter quest griefing the way you suggest.
AND on top of that, there’s an issue with pets getting civilian tagged (even right now). Killing a hunter pet could potentially give you a DHK. Take a look at this screenshot, from last night:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/610669121583185921/627751700480000010/unknown.png
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Are you seriously trying to convince us that gankers are the real victims in this scenario?
People whose playstyle involves mostly ganking lowbies of course would not want a mechanism that held them accountable.
I think the NPC’s labeled “civilian” make no sense, but lots of classic is there not because it makes sense in retrospect, but because it seemed like a good idea at the time.
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I like DHKs and despite the bugs they did in fact deter many putative quest wreckers.
I understand your objections, but frankly, they provided at least some means to balance/deter griefing.
Since GMs in retail do nothing these days, they can all get on the Classic train and police these matters again, as they used to in Vanilla.
No, it wasn’t a perfect system but I will be glad to see it return.
It’s up to Blizzard to ensure than NPCs are appropriately marked. I see them all over the place, ones with flags; ones without.
If high level players choose to come to low level areas, they should get punished for griefing/quest wrecking and killing lowbees.
You gotta help me out friend. Could you point out where I mentioned gankers are the victims? Griefers exist at all levels. The scenario I’m describing is where someone (of any level) is just going about their business farming mobs, and someone 10 levels lower decides to walk into their AoE to give them a DHK for the luls. A more dedicated griefer could make a low level alt just to follow someone around.
In fact, this is the reason they changed the way AoE worked when you were flagged and ran into someone who wasn’t flagged for PvP’s AoE. People were doing that just to force flags on PvE realms and getting them dog piled by the rest of their friends standing around.
Problem is on PvP realms, everyone is flagged all the time. There’s no deterrent against a low level just running into your AoE and laughing if DHKs against players was a thing.