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Take what hint? That some guy whos name is linked to some gross genitals says I should stop posting on the forums? What is wrong with you?
it is a strawman and you are projecting again. i know what a strawman is, you don’t, and you are trying to hide in that vagueness.
because you argue with logical fallacies and then declare victory, thats arguing in bad faith. if you had an actual argument, you wouldn’t need to resort to namecalling and fallacies.
so where were we, right, i said we should scale all content, you said that woudl make the game too single player focused to which i responded with variable reward system that addresses that and still encourages multiplayer. you have yet to come back with a counter, you have been ignoring that and sticking with the strawman and then arguing over what is and is not a strawman. you are still losing, but the next move is yours.
I’m still heartbroken that Kelliste has me blocked.
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What does everyone think about the soul cinders and how it’s gained and the time gating? Or the rankings required to access the other layers?
I’m honestly not a fan of the time gating for cinders. Tying something like this concerning player power to torghast was a bad idea from that start, imo.
I’ll still do it, but it just feels so wrong. TC has the right idea. That is what it should have been what should be focused on with the rewards. Expand on that instead, Blizzard 
Want me to summon a Succubus or a Wrathguard to cheer you up?
That being said, Xino. They still haven’t fixed the issue of what made people resent Torghast in the first place.
No plans on adding rewards like gear that’s equivalent to Wrath of the Jailer. No plans of lifting the time gating Soul Ash and Mega Soul Ash (Noone should call it Soul Cinders honestly, it sounds silly)
Tower Knowledge is a step towards a right direction. I dearly hope they expand on it and make it account wide… else people would resent the place even more.
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Just entirely wrong.
I just showed you lie and quote mine me and you want to say that I argue with logical fallacies?
Namecalling by calling you a liar and showing what you lied about? These fallacies are just saying whats wrong with your idea like so many others have done as well.
I also already addressed your variable reward system in that it would be absolutely useless in your idea because you dont want item level increases and you still dont understand that even if you had different stats those stats arent created equally so you get the best stats and you are done. Its like that now. We have 4 stats and a lot of classes only really want 1, maybe 2 stats that they focus on.
Its pretty clear that you have been grasping at straws this entire time, calling everything a strawman or a fallacy when they arent. Again, just because you call something a certain thing doesnt make it so. It has to fit the definition and you have been trying your hardest to change the definition so that things would fit your claim.
The new torghast is garbage. Not only are they making changes to classes, those changes could mean certain secondaries are better, or another legendary is better entirely. No way to change your secondaries on your legendary without just making a whole new legendary with the new stats that you want.
They already had to nerf torghast and some of these things they are putting in are contrary to those nerfs.
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again, you fail to understand a side game being played vs the main argument. besides, you are the one who asked me to show you where you said it, anyone can scroll up if they really want to. but even if i were to spend the effort on going through the whole thread and finding every instance where you said it, you would just easily dismiss it and throw another fallacy at me.
at this point, i may have to start debating myself just and ignore you just to keep the torghast thing moving along.
however, its still a viable currency system to use if you have ilvl increases. the current live pvp gearing system works exactly like this. if you kill a nobody, you get like 1 honor, if you kill a grand marshal, you get 12 honor. more reward for a harder target, and you can use it to buy your gear and upgrade it.
the biggest problem with this system is that blizz stuck it in the wrong part of the game. PVP should not have ilvl progression, and PVE would greatly benefit from this system but is still stuck on RNG loot drops from bosses.
ilvl progression is something i think we dont need as a game because i have played games that dont have it and it works, if anything ilvl progression makes the game more frustrating: i want to get my alts leveled up and in a status that i can just pick and and play any one of them. however when i think about the amount of time it takes to get 1 toon up to par let alone 15+ i just sort of get caught up staring at the abyss of work and just give up right there. i’ve resigned myself to just getting some sweet mogs and writing some TRP profiles for my alts.
the thing to understand is that without ilvl progression you have to add a lot of depth and complexity somewhere to make up for the loss of replayability. so if you do that in stats, you can make it so you dont have a real BiS for everything. armored core ninebreaker is a good example of this system in use. there really isn’t a story or PVE campaign in that game, just a bunch of challenges that award you bronze/silver/gold. in order to get gold on each of the challenges, you have to custom build your mech just for that challenge, that means running it, failing, looking at why you failed, coming up with a plan, building around that plan and trying it, repeating until you succeed.
you can’t have a universal BiS when one dungeon requires a bunch of frost resist while another requires mobility and movement speed.
you just don’t know how to argue, i think you think your argument is valid when its in fact a strawman. thats a failure on your end, not mine.
Your claim was I said “single player only” and when you take a sentence out of context where you ignore half the sentence then you are the one that is arguing in bad faith and using logical fallacies. So no, you did not show anyone or me where I said “single player only”. You just showed how absolutely wrong you are and you are grasping at straws at this point.
You do understand that your variable reward system would also be useless in a scaling system right? If your premise is all content should scale up, since you did talk about going back to old raids, then you dont have to increase your ilvl with your currency because you just do the content. Unless you are going to make drop rates so bad that you only get 2 items per raid, or drop items that your class wouldnt be able to use, your variable reward system would have 0 value.
Without ilvl there still wouldnt be a lot of depth and complexity even with your stat inflation. There just wouldnt and im getting tired of explaining it to you.
My argument is valid, you just dont like my arguments and so say its isnt valid. Your argument isnt valid for multiple reasons which has been expressed by multiple people all coming to the same conclusion. Even people that have me ignored have came up with the same conclusion.
Kelliste taught me that if you switch to an alt you can respond to people that ignored you on another character. Kelliste did something right for once.
whaaaaat, I learned something new as well, then.
Use your powers for good.
Hi Kelliste 
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you dont get drops from bosses, you get the currency and then use that currency at a vendor to buy the item you want. no RNG drops. the currency can also be used for consumables, buffs, cosmetics and stat tuning.
the thing with stats and why i would add a lot of movement based stats in like acceleration, deceleration and turning is that has impact in how you play, right now in torghast the gimmick is the wait until the mob starts casting its mega then just sidestep out of the way. well what if your ability to just stop on a dime and sidestep out of the way was compromised because you put too many points in haste and not mobility. that is just mobility, that isn’t even things like a dexterity stat you could add to gloves to tweak the variable range of damage from your spells.
That sounds positively and utterly awful. Whats the point of having more currency drop from multiplayer if everything gives currency? Are these items going to have a cost where it takes multiple raids to get 1 item or something? Even that that sounds positively and utterly awful and worse than what we have now.
And do you know why there are not as many mechanics in torghast and you just sidestep stuff? Because every single class and spec has to be able to complete it. You also dont have to sidestep stuff if you just blast it from orbit. Do you know how many times I get the “you can no longer jump” power? Whenever I see it. You get power and you lose something that is pretty useless in the grand scheme of things. Corruptions had a boon and a condition to it. Some Torghast things have boons and conditions to them as well and the conditions are usually worth about nothing.
As I said before, people are just going to find the best possible stats and that will be that. Thats the thing, there has to be a base for where things have to be completed. You needed hit and expertise if melee or hit for ranged, got that % and then forgot about it. So if you need 5% movement speed to get out of stuff, thats all that people would get even in your scenario. This is the problem with Blizzard, they arent putting themselves in the shoes of the players like you are ignoring almost everything that is going on in WoW and has been going on in WoW for the past 15 years thinking they dont matter when they do. Path of least resistance is the name of the game. Gearscore, path of least resistance, raider io path of least resistance, link achievements path of least resistance. Its all things to find the best possible way to do it.
You are just trying to make something sound complicated and interesting when it just sounds like a hassle and boring. And do you know how absolutely atrocious balance would be? Its already not that great and you want to add in all these trap stats for no reason at all? Again this is an MMO. It has pvp, it has people needing to work together and people dont want to group up with something that would waste their time by making things take longer than they otherwise should. Your ideas are antithetical to itself and you dont even realize it. Single player option, add in more stats, make it so if you group up you get more currency so that you can buy gear that you want with these stats, but dont buy the wrong stats or you will have to play with yourself because no one will want to play with you if you have the wrong stats and bring the group down so you then have to solo to get the right stats to be able to group up with people again and at that point they have already completed what they want gotten the gear that they want (because more currency) and you are just behind forcing you to just continue to solo.
This is the problem when you just try to throw anything at the wall in hopes that it sticks.
you are incentivized to play multiplayer to accrue currency faster and gear faster, but you can reach the same end goal if you play solo.
that really depends on what rate the devs want the system to distribute gear. too much gear and getting a cool piece loses meaning, too little and it upsets players who feel their work and effort are wasted.
i would say a good starting point would be to figure out how much currency the average person with 5 people will earn in 1 week of average casual play and make that equal to 1.65x the average cost of a piece of gear. that means the average player will get about 1 item per week if they group up for most instanced content with at least 5 people, however, they also have total free agency over that loot distribution rate via how much they play and how many players they play with. meaning if you want to earn more gear faster, you just have to play more than casuals, or with more people.
honestly a lot of stuff feels very half finished. for example in the fire zone you take %HP in fire damage unless you use an orb to convert the right mob into a anima power, then get immunity to the damage. that’s a cool mechanic, but its not very intuitive. i don’t buy that they are making it stupid simple so every single spec of every class can complete it, i think its because they aren’t really used to dungeon crawler mechanics. blizzards idea of making something harder is to buff its HP and damage, not increase the mechanical complexity.
you could say that with primary stats yes, for example DKs still like to have 20% haste. however, that doesn’t mean you can have an absolute bis, only a personal bis for a specific task. experienced raiders will custom tailor talent builds on a per boss basis, this is just adding depth of a gearing towards that.
if its 5% on that boss but he is also a DPS check, and then 15% on the next boss but he isn’t a dps check, you will need at least two sets, one for each boss. the replayability is in the puzzle solving of building for each challenge you face.
and under this system, the path of least resistence is heavy multiplayer with a lot of play. the more you play the more currency you earn, the more gear you could buy and builds you can unlock.
lets say there was seasonal content, if your path of least resistance every season is to go hardcore on redbull for 3 weeks and complete everything that dropped all at once, you could do that under this system. at the exact same time though, if someone is casual and just wants to play solo or with a few friends every once in a while, they can do that too. the net result is that between the gear distribution rate and the new gear added. that everyone should be at the same point by the end of the patch.
what this means is that the variable currency system works for the path of least resistance no matter who the individual is and what they feel their path should be. you have to remember that for some people multiplayer is the path of least resistance while to others the challenge is grouping up itself and they would prefer to play alone.
so this system answer “path of least resistance” better than current ones.
really depends on how you distribute stats. ideally there should be a range of each stat, and then players are allowed to play within that range.
so this is something that i wouldn’t pick, but i imagine you know the answer to, in armored core, if you want to sell a part, you can sell it for the full price you paid. meaning if you bought the wrong stats, you just sell it and buy the correct item.
this would be counter to the current system with conquest and honor where you just have to grind out currency again. TBH, either works as in reality you aren’t going to get benched because you bought the wrong item. if you are in a guild where you would be benched for the wrong stats, then you are in a high end guild and you are a high end player that would know what stats to get, meaning they wont be benched.
that is absolutely true of your debate style.
I kinda like blasting through torghast on my mage more than my dk.
Being able to one shot a boss with one arcane blast is satisfying 
Really? I enjoy summoning LEGIONS of DEMONS as well as raising Minecraft Skeletons on both of the said classes.
That being said, WHEN FROST BUFFS IN TORGHAST BLIZZARD!? Most of the bonuses for Death and Decay, Death Coil and anything shadow related are useless unless you have certain anima power that goes along with it and NO REMORSELESS WINTER BONUSES LIKE WHUT.
I’m looking at you Undertaker’s Crown. 
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BRUH, RIGHT? Arcane mage feels sooooo powerful by floor 6, floor 1, feels terrible lol.
My DK can be fun, but overall, it’s one of my least enjoyable classes in Torghast. NOT that it’s bad or anything, just not exciting to me. On the level of playing hunter, but like +1 more point.
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