Why did you guys force Torghast on everyone

This started out with so much promise and then we saw the developers start to “balance” Torghast or encourage people to play one way or another. I don’t understand that mentality. Torghast had the beautiful benefit of being totally isolated from any other aspect of the game on alpha. It didn’t reward gear, It didn’t give you currency, It didn’t give you anything. The team even said they planed to add a ton of achievements, transmog, toys, mounts, titles and the like to encourage those who were interested to really go nuts.

I think it started when they added the debuff that was going to basically give you a timer so you couldn’t spend a ton of time standing around waiting for CDs. In reality the answer should have been lets add more cool powers to give you more buffs so you don’t feel the need to sit and wait for CDs. From there on we saw a torments added and in general a turn away from “how crazy OP can we get them” to “How can we challenge them when they are this OP”

Isn’t challenge the reason we do M+, Raids or rated PVP? Why dose everything haft to be a mountain to climb? Why can’t something be fun for the sake of being fun? It wasn’t really that much of an issue until you decided to drag literally the entire player base in to Torghast. Soulash now EVERYONE every single player in Shadowlands NEEDS to do Torghast. This isn’t optional, This isn’t well you don’t need a legendary no the content you gear though is balanced around you having a covenant ability, a soulbind, Conduits equipped to said soulbind, and a legendary.

People who have no interest in spending there time in what now amount to more horrific visions now had to spend even more time they they had in BFA with HVs. Better yet you didn’t even get the legendary from there you had to go spend literally days farming OR spend gold to get an item an item so you could eventually craft a legendary.

I am going to put this plainly and bluntly as possible.
People who don’t have interest in a type of content don’t want to do said content.
Raiders who are not interested in PVP don’t want to go grind RBGs.
PVPers who spend hours in rated arenas don’t want to LFG for a raid to get a trinket that is busted in PVP.
Causal solo players don’t want to haft to go grind +10s keystones to get gear so they can go do torghast only to find out they need to have a group for that too.

This is just another example of bungling up content and then not targeting it towards the demographic of player who is interested in it. I know the team put a lot of time and effort in to torghast but TBH it has not paid off even a little. Every time you guys mess around with powers and balance we see more specs get put in to wired places like how tanks and healers struggle to survive a solo run because mobs are hitting to hard. Or DPS getting one shot by something because they are in a group and ripped aggro because they are doing tens of thousands more damage then there tank.

I know this sucks but honestly don’t iterate upon this system. Don’t do that to us, don’t do that to the dev team. It was a good idea that just didn’t pan out. Instead of doubling down and making things worse cut your losses and next patch have soulash drop from other end game activities or in the new areas.

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Why is this under Death Knight forums?

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No shot I read this

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Copy/Cut and paste this into the GD forums where it belongs OP :smiley:

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torghast for me is a blast, i just wish we had more reasons to go there. once im in i have fun, but i never have any reason to go. personally i would love to get gear from it, the game is severely lacking in solo content.

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This, if it were a viable solo/small group gearing method I would run it more. Gear could scale based on floor etc… maybe have first floor be a base ilvl of heroic or Mythic 0 and go from there.

And let us use Valor to upgrade it, since some people don’t run Mythic plus would give them a use for that Valor. Look at that, a gear progression system for PvE that more casual/solo players can use.

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You guys have to be insane in the membrane if you think no one, let alone Blizzard, hasn’t already thought about Torghast being a solo player gear progression method thing.

News flash: this stuff is all done on purpose. There won’t be any catering to casuals or solo players or anything like that.
They want everything purposely obfuscated and meandering, everything is designed to waste your time.

The sooner you actually take that seriously, the more energy you will conserve, I promise you.

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that doesn’t mean blizzard is right.

I didn’t say that means Blizzard is right. If you think I’m on their side then you just have comprehension issues.

i just dont understand their hate-on for solo content. if solo content causes a drop in group content participation, then that just means a lot of people didn’t want to do the group content in the first place.

IMO all content should scale to the number of players the way torghast does, everything pve: M+, raids, timewalking. that way you can just play the game solo, if you want to bring a friend, you can, if you want to bring lots of friends, you can.

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I agree nerf warlock

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What is the point of it being an MMO if you dont play with others to complete difficult content?

Torghast is RNG, not difficult. M+ is pretty universally bad in terms of gearing, timewalking is really just for mounts and pets.

I dont like people, but I realize that if I want to progress in an MMO, you have to play with others.

If you want a solo experience there are plenty of games that would provide that. God of War, Doom, Horizon: Zero Dawn. WoW is an MMO which is massively multiplayer online, their “hate-on” for solo content is in the genre, multiplayer.

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changing all instanced pve content to scale from solo up doens’t change that, it just makes it more dynamic and real, you can still play with others, you just dont have to deal with all the negatives of current grouping. if you only have 2 friends online, then group with 2 and go. you dont have to deal with pugging someone.

you can also solve grouping requirements by basically requiring some sort of cross class meta play to achieve certain run times. an example would be skipping trash, if you are solo you might not be able to, but bring a rogue and they can cloak you through. it achieves more dynamic problem solving that ends up being more social than the current model.

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I mean Torghast is okay. It still has potential even though it has its flaws.

Soul Ash and Anima Powers are one hell of a drug.

But if I have to compare it to HV in terms of current content, I’d have to say HV was more lucrative in terms of game progression. Even though HV had its horrific downsides, the upside is not also great enough to break the “multiplayer” aspect of the game even though you have an option to tag along a friend.

I’m more surprised that Torghast, a base in the Maw, does not provide Stygia or even a gear equivalent to Wrath of the Jailer event. Soul Ash as a reward itself is just not good enough of a reward to warrant people’s time.

Solo content = more social? Have you actually pugged? You can skip packs easier alone than you can in a group. 4/5 people get by without a problem and the 5th pulls 4 mobs.

And why is someone that is in a guild complaining about pugging? Does your guild not have enough players? Bad players? Or players that dont want to play with you where you are forced to pug so much? Thats the point of a guild, to play together so you dont have to pug.

I dont even know why soloing content came up in the first place on a thread about torghast which is soloable but just depends on rng.

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its not that the content is designed solo, its that you can play solo on up, that means if you want to play with a friend, you are not forced to invite more non-friends as a minimum requirement to play.

in your example of the 5th person pulling the trash, in a scalable model, you just dont bring that person.

the way you encourage multiplayer play is by dungeon design, and i used skipping trash as an easy example, but you need to see past that, you could just as easily have a door to a shortcut that opens by having 2 people stand on two different platforms while a 3rd goes through and flips a switch making the door stay open.

why aren’t you in a guild Kelliste?

i was under the impression most people solo torghast

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I dont like people and guilds for the most part so im not in one. But you dont see me complaining about pugging or the game not being solo friendly. You can find me pointing out the realization of pugging because it has always been that way through human nature, but I have never complained that pugging is a thing.

If people can play solo and accomplish the same thing and taking the variable of 4-29 other people they will do it but its a multiplayer game. Its like playing LoL and complaining about it being a pvp game or playing Horizon: Zero Dawn and complaining that its a single player game.

If people are buying WoW, an MMORPG then they should know you are going to have to play with other people. I really dont understand this line of thinking that everything should be soloable. ITS A MULTIPLAYER GAME.

btw, my guild is just for the guild bank, some friends have their pvp alts in but that is about it, its just me and my bank. I join communities instead of guilds.

wow is more than just a simple multiplayer dungeon crawler. for many its social media, i know people who log in to just chat in trade. there are also people who play to collect stuff, or play pet battles, or role play. all of this content is scalable in the amount of players you can do.

currently, when you play solo you hit a hard cap of ~197, to get above that the game forces you into one of its multiplayer submodes: raiding, M+, rated pvp.

how is being able to solo CN or play with 2-3 good friends a problem? i have done both solo and group runs of torghast, and raids already have 10-30 player scaling, why not just change it to 1-40 and change M+ and timewalking to be 1-5. on the pvp side add solo-queue for rated and then wow’s content would truly be open to all.

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100% this. If we could gear up through Torghast to relevant ilvls, it would be the best thing to ever happen to WoW. The fact that they put so much effort into something only to make it completely pointless is mind boggling.

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How is being able to solo CN or with 2-3 others a problem? Encounter design and the amount of work to add in solo mechanics to replace mechanics that take multiple people to achieve. Its almost like dungeons, pvp, and raids are all purposfully designed for multiple players and not for a single person.