Why did neutral factions not react to the burning of Teldrassil?

Lore Story Forum
81

Terror is NOT a conventional war tactic / strategy. In a conventional sense, there’s nothing to be gained out of it. A scared alliance won’t bring an extra patch of dirt or one extra gold coin to the Horde. It won’t diminish the number of troops within any faction’s ranks. It doesn’t do any good in a military sense.

Although terror might seem indiscriminant, it is almost, if not, always aimed at civilian populace to sway political perspectives, not to demoralize the military forces. The burning of Teldrassil was designed to struck fear and desperation within the people of the Alliance. However, trained and well indoctrinated troops (a.k.a “professional troops” or “lawful combatants”) under proper leadership will not cower before terror and instead will seek vengeance and retribution.

That is why I argue that terror has no strategic or tactical value in a conventional war. It is purely political.

Off the books, terror IS a tactic. But in the books, it shouldn’t be.

82

Troll culture loa seem to only care about themselves, so I think that would be your answer for that:

    Gossip How did you escape Zalazane?

    <Zen’tabra closes her eyes and shakes her head.>

    When Vol’jin called for everyone ta flee, we… couldn’t face de tribe after failing dem so badly. So, we fled south, ta de untamed jungle islands.

    De wilds claimed a few o’ us dat first night. We found safety in a deep cave in de center o’ de isle, but me dreams dere were not peaceful: I be havin’ a vision!

    Gossip What was the vision?

    <Zen’tabra’s head snaps back to you, her eyes bright and her smile wide around her tusks.>

    'Twas a jungle bigger and wilder dan I ever seen! And before me, de ancient raptor loa only talked about in Zandalari tales-Gonk, de Great Hunter!

    De raptor spirit spoke ta me, told me he had brought me spirit to a place called de Emerald Dreem. De spirit had been trapped, like de other loa on de Echo Isles, by Zalazane’s magic. But Gonk, bein’ an ancient spirit, was able ta reach across and bring me spirit ta him, even through Zalazane’s voodoo.

    Gossip What did the spirit want?

    Zalazane’s mindless servants were killin’ all de beasts o’ de isles, burnin’ up de trees and plants too. Gonk needed us ta save de life on de isles. But since we not be able ta draw upon de power o’ de loa wit Zalazane in power, Gonk be showin’ us a new way ta connect wit ALL de spirits o’ nature, ta work WIT de spirits, not just be servin’ a single loa at a time.

    It be difficult at first, ya, mon, but Gonk be showin’ us how ta also reach inta de Emerald Dream wit de spirits and learn from dem directly!

    Gossip How did the other loa react to this?

    <Zen’tabra laughs.>

    De other loa, ‘specially Shirvallah, did not much care for dis plan. Dey still be wantin’ us ta work just for one o’ dem at a time, not wit all de spirits at once. But Gonk had forced dere hands, and de knew it was de only way ta save de isles while Zalazane still rules.

    I be tinkin’ dat Gonk did not care for de other loa much either. He be teasin’ de other loa all de time while we be learnin’ from dem.

    Gossip So what happened then?

    We been workin’ wit de spirits for many moons now, mon, but many o’ us already knew de forms o’ de loa we served before. It not be easy, but de Emerald Dream be a powerful teacher by itself-havin’ de spirits demselves also teachin’ ya… it hurries tings along.

    Dat don’t mean ‘twas easy keepin’ safe from Zalazane. Even wit our new tricks combined wit de loa givin’ what help dey could, we lost a few bruddas and sistas over de years ta his voodoo and mindless servants. But we kept de life o’ de isles alive, and when Vo’jin and de Darkspears returned, we knew just how ta take Zalazane down.

    Gossip So are the loa still holding to their side of the deal?

    Ya, mon, for now. Dey not be too keen on teachin’ many more o’ our kind, but dey be helpin’ us ‘long as we be keepin’ de life o’ de isles flourishin’. When Gonk left after de fall o’ Zalazane, he be tellin’ us how ta contact him if de other loa don’t keep dey end o’ de bargain.

    I be hopin’ it never come ta dat… but just in case, we be openin’ up channels wit dat Cenarion Circle group.

    <Zen’tabra cackles madly.>

    Oh, ya shoulda seen de look on dat night elf’s face…

83

Per Good War, it was to make a divide between Gilneans and Night Elves which would slowly fracture the Alliance. If the Alliance moved to reclaim Kalimdor, the Gilneans would be outraged since they’ve been without a home for half a decade without the Alliance doing anything about it. If the Gilneans got support, the Night Elves would’ve been outraged and moved without Alliance support.

8.1 showed this kind of failed/worked but under different conditions but it didn’t matter because apparently the Night Elves alone are enough to take on the Horde.

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84

They simultaneously published that it actually never would have worked with Elegy:

    "And what of Gilneas? What will you say to me if I choose to help the Kaldorei first?"

    Which he would, especially if the Horde threatened thousands of prisoners. And Genn knew it.

    “I cannot act if the Alliance is divided,” Anduin said. “That’s what this action is intended to do, Genn. Not just take Darnassus. But to use it against us, striking at the very heart of what makes our kingdoms the Alliance. Sylvanas is going to turn us against one another. That’s the grand plan. I was a fool for not to see it earlier.”

    Genn was silent for a long time. “When did you learn so much about strategy?”

    Anduin laughed humorlessly. “I was reading when I should have been sparring.”

    “Well, you are a fool.” Anduin turned to regard him, surprised by the words. “A fool to think for a moment that I would withdraw my support because you are helping the Kaldorei. Do I want my kingdom back? My people to return to their homes? Of course, I do! Do I want it badly enough to allow innocent night elves to suffer, when they so generously have helped the Gilneans these last few years? When they mitigated the Worgen curse, so we could hang on to ourselves and not get lost in madness? When they fed us, sheltered us, and offered us their home when we had nothing?”

    Genn made a dismissive noise, somewhere between a huff and a snarl. “No, I would never betray that kindness by turning my back on them now. Sylvanas certainly doesn’t understand the Alliance. She is in for a rude awakening, and you can mark my words.”

    “I mark your words, Genn Greymane, and my heart is full to hear them. They are a beacon in a time of terrible darkness.”

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85

It is because the current writers only care about the narrative they are writing. They haven’t taken into account anything else outside that story such as how other neutral factions would act or things such as the Vindicaar.

It is why the narrative is rubbish and makes no sense because the writers are not interested in exploring a plausible narrative that makes sense. They just want their “cool moments” and don’t care if it ruins the story.

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86

In my opinion the Alliance should’ve blitzed one of the Horde capitals or important holdouts in retaliation. Another viable alternative is to raid horde supply lines and junction / crossroad cities. Waging a defensive battle in Arathi, Darkshore, and Lordaeron will bleed the alliance dry. The Alliance can only regain lost grounds if the horde is weakened prior.

/sigh

This is what happens when your leaders prioritize politics over winning.

This is world of WARcraft, after all. Not world of PEACEcraft.

87

Blizzard is writing the story to have a political agenda is quite evident. They are pushing tons strong female characters(not necessarily a bad thing although they have killed a few good male characters to make room like Rastakan).

They are also trying force players to accept that war is bad and we should forgive and be at peace with one another…

They stopped writing a believable Narrative so they could push there politics and beliefs into the story(through their favorite characters)

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88

Cause that tree was ugly. Their skyline will be better looking without it around.

89

and the countless civilians that died?

90

They ain’t never met them.

91

More like all of them… especially on the human side. I guess the writers do not like the idea of having traditionally masculine males leading the show.

/laugh

This reminds me a lot of that brief scene in Jaina’s flashback with her mother, in which she felt responsible for the death of Rhonin, Kinndy, Varian, Uther, Daelin, and Arthas. I’ve just noticed that the alliance has already lost, like, more than half of their strong HUMAN male characters with no one replacing them.

I’d be damned. No wonder the Alliance looks more like pansies right now. Most of the leaders are horde sympathizers and to continue the horde -v- alliance narrative, they must make Sylvanas evil. This is just pathetic and lame.

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Huh? I know it failed per genn and anduin’s conversation in elegy but what do you mean with worked?

93

Both the Ebon Blade and the Argents/silver hand/whatever have either heavy alliance leanings or a lot of members that wouldn’t be out of place in the alliance and they sat on their hands for years while Sylvanas vomited evil all over the carpet. And only now are the paladins fighting against the horde.

Hell, Bolvar point blanks tells the players that Sylvanas’ actions are pissing him off, and we know he’s not shy about strong arming the Ebon Blade to get what he wants- and they’re still sitting on their hands.

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94

Probably because they’re tired of the forum spam from night elves, and figured if they ignored them, they’d go away?

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95

It’s a valid point made sarcastically, really. When it comes down to it WoW is a game about killing extremely large numbers of people, most of whom are defined by being rigidly stereotyped and biologically-bounded groups, and the story usually goes out of its way to make you feel that your reasons for doing so are good and justified and proportionate. In this, so the sarcasm goes, Teldrassil’s actually a little unusual because it’s about how that behaviour is wrong and bad. Killing all the demons/qiraji/saberon/kobolds/murlocs/quilboar/centaurs/gnolls is almost never a moral issue, and is most often framed as a purely heroic deed.

Basically, Warcraft (and genre fantasy at large) tends to be a-okay with genocidal action so long as it’s at the expense of groups that the reader is informed are unsympathetic. The reason Teldrassil’s burning is written as a horrible and awful crime isn’t because it’s described as a mass murder that shattered a culture; it’s because its target was a protagonist-faction who we are intended to admire and empathize with. Compare, say, Ahn’qiraj or Zul’drak, where the player is instrumental in wiping out entire cultures and is clearly written to be good and right and just in doing this very heroic deed and their victims are portrayed as entirely deserving it.

TL;DR: Warcraft is a peerless example of a mass-market genre whose fundamental premises tend to include both (A) ‘murder is wrong and bad*’ and (B) ‘*but some biological groups of people are fundamentally viler and less worthy of life than others and they must be destroyed to protect the innocent.’ This is messed up.

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96

That didn’t stop the bronze dragons from helping the Horde recruit the brown orcs.

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97

Nighthaven was the Night Elves’s equivalent of a capital in the RTS. The Moonglade also held many if not most, of the sleeping druids. The Felwood was part of Ashenvale forest, and the combined territory was pretty much where the bulk of Night Elf population lived in as well as scattered settlements on Darkshore.

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That is not the Genn Greymane of the Interlude between the Second and Third Wars, who gave only a deaf ear to those seeking refuge against the Scourge, who put up a Wall in response.

THAT is the Greymane that Sylvannas remembers and probably what Anduin was reading in those history texts.

This kindler gentler Greymane is of very recent vintage.

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99

Wasn’t aware the Bronze Dragons declared war on the Alliance.

100

Seems like a grey area and blizz pulling a reason out of their butts for brown orcs for horde

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