I highly doubt Wayback Machine has every last bit of WoW Patch Data on it. All it archives is websites, and the patch notes DO NOT GO INTO THAT MUCH DETAIL.
And even then, not every website is archived!
I guarantee you can find the full item history of any dungeon/raid piece with Alakazam.
https ://web.archive.org/web/20050204054546/http ://wow.allakhazam.com:80/db/item.html?witem=16963
https ://web.archive.org/web/20050222122820/http ://wow.allakhazam.com:80/db/item.html?witem=11726
Comment sections can be great too.
That doesn’t cover boss or mob health pools or spells, though, does it?
This topic is about items only sorry if you misunderstood, If they have the 1.12 database like they said at Blizzcon, they have all the HP/DMG values already in their original form as it was right before TBC.
Items were tuned the way they were because of how everything else was tuned. You can’t have item tuning without retuning everything else to go along with it, otherwise the game will be broken.
You guys are asking for something we’re not getting because the data for it doesn’t exist anymore.
I’m sure it wouldn’t take too much development work just to buff MC mobs and bosses by 15-20% or whatever to coincide with the 1.12 debuff changes.
I’ve already showed you how the data does exist and how it can and has been done before.
If you have any examples of how reverting item stats would cause the game to become ‘broken’ please provide them otherwise nobody is going to take you seriously here.
Also a shift in class meta based on what gear is available throughout the game’s lifespan is a good thing and progressive item changes would only encourage that.
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One of the worst ideas I have ever heard, sounds like some kind of private server BS
We definitely need proper itemization for the current patch and I support this topic and all of their ideas that support this idea.
Love, Slickz.
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I got a rock ![:frowning:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/frowning.png?v=6" ":frowning:")
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Any particular reason that you think that?
Here’s where I think pservers got it right.
The client is 1.12 but the content is released as patches in a timeline and that includes the itemization changes.
Looks to me like Blizzard is just going to put it all out there and just gate the raids in a streamlined timeline of 4 drops.
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I’m actually looking forward to no item progression, I played in retail vanilla from the launch date and I also played all of the new private servers that have done their bastardized version of progressive itemization.
These private servers simply removed any item added in 1.4, and left the loot tables as is. In actual vanilla the loot tables from the bosses was much different, some pieces of t2 dropped in MC, and the loot was distributed on bosses differently. Spending 4-6 months raiding MC for 0 upgrades is horrible, boring and makes people quit the game.
The crappy loot worked in vanilla because the vast majority of people didn’t really care about the stats, a purple item was better. Hell I had full t1 on my priest, most of it was pretty horrible back then, but I didn’t care because it was purple. You can’t recreate that mentality today.
Add on the fact that gear progression is only a small part of what makes the earlier parts of the game easier in 1.12.1.
- Talents make more of a difference then gear every will,
- Progressive nerfs to content as the game went on make a big difference.
- People having computers that can handle a 40 man raid and not drop to 5 fps
- All strats for each boss being freely available
- Mods like bigwigs, hell even raid frames just didn’t exist when the early guilds started doing MC
- People today have a much better understanding of how the game works and will gear accordingly, Most early guilds had people wearing full t0 sets instead of the gear that was actually good.
Progressive itemization would be cool to recreate the difficulty of vanilla if you could also address some of the other factors that all contribute to make the earlier content significantly easier (progressive talents/class changes being the biggest) but since they don’t seem to be doing that . . . why bother?
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It’s really not as much about difficulty as it is about preventing content droughts and ruining power creep/progression of your character.
There are still plenty of items that are well itemised for 1.12 talents and classes, they just aren’t as juiced up. You can still reach defense cap as a tank, You can reach hit cap as a melee dps, you can get a lot of +healing if you’re a healer, you can get a lot of +spell damage if you’re a caster.
At the end of the day I’m in favour of having the best classic possible from a gameplay standpoint.
Let’s be honest, the raids and PvE content of classic will never be on the level of BFA. The items changing helps to avoid the situation where everyone knows what to do in a 10 year old game and has the best gear possible from the first month and then has no reason to remain subbed after they do the content a few times. More release stages with itemisation changes could help with that.
As for the tier 2 in raids and molten core being a 24 hour lock in the early stages of the game, I think it’s obvious why private servers did not implement that and I wouldn’t call it a ‘basterdized’ version.
How would 1.12 itemisation fix this? Dungeon gear would be even stronger and there would be even less upgrades in MC. https ://imgur.com/a/Aiw6Yx3
I can’t see how talents/class spells being changed back to how they were is a positive thing. Whereas I can see how Progressive Itemisation is a positive thing. Things like 200% Mortal Strike were nerfed for a reason, just as Item stats for changed for a reason.
But where spells like Mortal Strike were nerfed to make the game more balanced and fun as a whole, Item’s were changed to make the game more balanced in that current tier of content and progression.
Like do you really think that progressive class changes would make the game harder? All it would do is change which class does the most DPS, and the meta would be to stack that class and the content would still be the same difficulty. Itemisation changes would be a much better way of holding classes back from their full potential than that.
Private servers didn’t impliment the t2 in MC because they simply didn’t have the data on what pieces dropped and where they dropped from. Very few guilds progressed far into MC pr 1.4, rag was never killed, the loot tables were never documented.
The talents / class changes would absolutely make the early raids harder.
- Mages gain 6% spell hit and 10% spell crit (with winters chill) from talents.
-Warriors gain bloodthirst as an attack making fury a viable spec. Prot warriors get shield slam (the buffed threat per rage version of it as well) - 5 second rule for mana regen started as soon as you channeled a spell, not when you successfully cast one so healers wouldn’t pre-cast and cancel heals to regen mana
- Healer overhauls greatly changed how they worked. Before 1.9 all priest greater heal / heal spells (with the exception of like rank 2 heal) were 4 second casts. In order to get the talent to reduce it from 4 seconds to 3.5 seconds you had to spend 30 points in the holy tree. Since meditation (which was 5 points by the way not 3) and inner focus required 20 points in the discipline tree you if you wanted a faster big heal you could only spend one talent point in one of those talents. Pretty much every healer was just using flash heal at this point because the tank would generally die before you could land a 4 second cast, this was much more mana inefficient then the heal/gheal spam you see in the 1.12.1 version of the game.
As for the gear, yes the new updated instance gear is pretty strong. There are still upgrades in raid for almost all slots with the exception of the turban from UBRS (but without that item your pre raid bis is still a green of x spell school). But without the new drops added slightly later in MC (ToEP, Mana igniting cord, domo loot, salamanders, ring of spell power, HDI ring) there is so little loot worth doing the raid for, if you are raiding early on in the server you are doing MC to pick up gear to put in your bank and hoping for a band of accuria to drop.
Nor would it be authentic without frequently swinging the nerf bat leading to authentic recreation of the flavor of the month phenomenon.
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If there’s no data available how do you know about it? It’s obvious they make decisions based on gameplay and not nostalgia.
I still think that with the old talents there would be some broken meta that arises and it would all be for naught.
I don’t disagree that having the extra MC loot isn’t a bad thing to have from the get go, maybe gate the Anathema/Rhok quests till later though to increase character gear progression.
Also I gave plenty of examples in my album of images, there is A lot more than just Turban.
- Savage Gladiator Chain
- Rosewine Circle
- Titanic Leggings
- Diana’s Pearl Necklace
- Shroud of Arcane Mastery
- Don Mauricio’s Band of Domination
- Black Dragonscale Set
- Boots of Heroism
- Mantle of Lost Hope
And this is only scraping the surface. If you really care about having no upgrades in MC then you should want progressive itemisation.
Progressive itemization would be more authentic to the 2004>2006 experience than 1.12 itemization. Also, it would blunt some of the power creep that starting at 1.12 introduces. We’re already getting buffed classes; let’s not add buffed items to further trivialize the game.
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That’s the point behind posts like this. They are well aware of the imbalance it will cause as an effect. Why else do you think they want blizzard to change the 1.12 data?
Which is easier? Coming right out and saying that you want class/raid re-balancing and dealing with the worst backlash or asking for data to be changed (which will result in re-balancing anyway) and passing it under the nose of most people? Pretty sure it’s the latter.
It’s like asking the same question but rewording it differently the second time.
It’s still the same question, with the same meaning and intent.
I hated the T0.5 update, because it made dungeons without set piece drops ghost towns.
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