Why can't Bears have Adaptive Fur and Rage of the Sleeper?

Classes Druid
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Guardian is arguably the worst tank right now. Not even in utility, but in survivability, which is step one in tank class design. Shield tanks just got introduced ranged attack blocking, which is awesome, but I feel like the changes needed to make bear a more viable tank already exist in the game and I’m not sure why developers are trying their best to ignore it.

Every tank except guardian has some form of magic mitigation. DKs have anti-magic shell, I believe monks stagger magic damage, warriors can ignore pain magic damage, and I’m sure prot paladins and DHs have something as well.

Which btw how come Ignore pain was taken off the GCD but not Frenzied Rejuv?

In legion we had:

Adaptive Fur
Taking elemental damage has a chance to grant you 10% damage reduction for 15 sec against the elements that caused the damage.

Sounds fantastic! maybe buff that to 20% and throw that in the PTR? Couldn’t hurt testing it in the PTR could it?

We also had

Rage of the Sleeper
Prevents 25% of all damage you take and reflects (47.25% of Attack power) Nature damage back at your attackers.

Oh! What a wonderful CD it was, the dps cooldown we’ve always needed but have somehow been left without. Don’t think testing this in the PTR could hurt either.

Enough of this “We’d have to wait till 8.2/8.3/9.1” nonsense, who’d be getting screwed over by guardians druids becoming a relevant pick in season 2?

I tried to level a warrior to get back into tanking but I can’t do the 110-120 xp again, I need bears to be good again.

Please.

MBGA

EDIT: Wait a minute, how come Paladin can cleanse easy enough but our cleanse takes us out of form? Last time I checked we can use SOOTHE in bear and cat form so that logic doesn’t hold up.

EDIT 2: Just to clarify, I agree with Dreaux in that Guardian isn’t a BAD tank, you can tank anything as a guardian druid technically. It’s just that I feel like tanking as a guardian druid has been made a rougher experience than it has to be. Yes someone always has to be on the bottom but when it comes to roles like tanking and healing, the gap should be ever so much smaller than it is between DPS.

Things can only go up from here I suppose

5 Likes
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I don’t think that you will get many arguments from any Bears around here. A lot of people have been calling for the changes you listed + Beserk and AOE slow since Beta began. Some of the changes from Legion to BFA leave a lot of people wondering where they are going with Druids or if the developers even know what to do with us.

You are completely correct in your statement that we are dead last as a tank however that does not mean we cannot tank. I benched my Prot Warrior when 8.1 went live to focus on my Druid again and I have slowly begun to get back into M+. I have done +8 and +9 but there are many Guardians doing High Teens (doesn’t sound creepy at all) on a regular basis. When my Guild got AOTC we did it with Double Guardian. The Brezs and Stampeding Roars really helped us get over the hump.

Every expansion there is a class that has to be ranked at the bottom of any list compiled just as there is a class at the top. Just because we fall into a certain number on a list doesn’t mean that we are bad or even unplayable. There are classes that just preform better. There could be improvements to abilities that we currently have access too (i.e. dispel and resto affinity use) but as of right now we can engage in any content currently available.

The mass majority of the playerbase is not completing cutting edge content but I promise you if Method clears the next Mythic Tier with a Druid, you will see Bears everywhere. People like to flock to the perceived path of least resistance.

4 Likes
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Yes I did a 13 and some lower keys, but it was in a group with 2 people in the 1700-1800s on alts/alt specs and the group itself was all mythic raiders. And it was an easy week. I don’t really bother with more because few others in my guild do M+, and it’s way easier to pug as Balance even at 1700.

If you want to level a Warrior, just hit the Invasions. The levels go really quick.

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The major issue with most classes is that players remember very recently having so much more, and then losing it.

Bear is ok, but its hard to ignore that bears had so much more that helped them before.

3 Likes
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idk, I have done a few M + above 10 and tanked 8/8 M Uldir on a Bear. Our toolkit is lacking yes but we aren’t “dead last” as far as surviving raid boss damage… we are dead last in M + though.

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I always thought that was kind of like a weird joke. Like, hey, I’m ready for Firelands!

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No bear is not ok, it’s abysmal. Everything we bring to the table someone has it and better. The affinity tree is a joke and the loss of artifact weapons shows just how flawed this spec is when we had that to mask it all

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No one ever speaks up about being top, but everyone shows up when they’re bottom. Frankly, I find it much healthier to stop looking at general trends and focus on my own game.

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Abysmal would imply that bears cant complete normal content, which they can.
So yes, they are ok. Not great, not decent. Just ok.

Exagerating and blowing things out of proportion wont help us. Bears spent pretty much all of legion as the best tanks, with some exception.

Someone will always be at the bottom, so stop moaning.

1 Like
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No it’s far from blowing things out of proportion, bears are bad. It’s arguably the least played tank because it brings nothing to the table in mythics and has the weakest options that you can get from even warriors. No slow outside of a 1 min cooldown, weakest threat generation, gutted heal yet BDK kept their heal and awful rage spending mechanics. Maul cost as much as iron fur but against anything but a caster you’d never use it.

The spec needs to be fully reworked as i said earlier having the aritfact weapons covered up the issues with the spec because it gave so much more that the spec alone didn’t offer. I noticed you’ve only done a 6 on that guy and i’m assuming as a tank too so please try something 10 and up and tell me it’s exaggerating.

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It’s exaggerating, the spec isn’t perfect by any means but abysmal it is not.

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It’s doable. It’s not enjoyable. And you must have support from your group that the other tanks do not require.

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Even just having Rage of the Sleeper back would be a huge help to bears. It would give us the DPS CD we badly need, and the leech (assuming it’s the fully empowered version from the artifact) would give us that extra heal that has left a gaping void in my heart.

Adaptive fur would be icing on the cake. Please don’t let the cake be a lie.

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I know Blizz is always changing/tweaking things up to keep it ‘fresh’, but after all these years you’d think they’d keep the screw-ups to minimal effect to players.

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The immunity to knockbacks and such was also a really nice perk, and something sort of unique to Guardian vs other tanks. (Although Monk & Warrior & DH tanks could achieve something similar with their greater mobility, and Paladins can just immune everything.)

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It’s not a KB that is the issue. I mean, Bears can Skull Bash or Wild Charge their way back almost instantly. It’s that so many of these are combined with a tiny stun or daze that prevents doing this. Either that, or server lag is worse that I previously thought. And I don’t think it is, since I have been able to do it as Feral on the pure KBs, although it hurts to be the closest one on Fetid if the WC gets overly frisky and aggressive. :confused:

That stated… Yeah, having the whole kit of RotS back would be really nice. I don’t want to settle for just one thing though. Otherwise we’ll be fighting the whole expac for a complete utility package and when we finally get what we need, the next expac will roll around with it’s barrel-o’-fun of disappointments.

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10s and higher have been done on bears, so its factually doable.

The fact that looked me up to use my experience against me ahows you really have no good arguement, so you try to portray that I don’t know better.

If you want to get all defensive and whatnot, thats on you, but you dont do the bear community any favors by getting worked up.

Bears can complete the content that the majority of the player base participates in, and if you want to go higher, thats on you. Play a different class or learn to cope.

Also the artifact weapons didnt cover up anything, they whole legion expansion was design with the weapons as a focal point. Like the talent system. Its unfortunate that nearly nothing got kept, but likely the devs dont want bears at the top this xpac.

If you actually want to participate, what does a full rework look like?

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This is really the heart of it. Bears just need a couple more tools to be competitive. It’s not even a numbers thing as far as I can see, it’s a matter of being able to respond to a wide enough variety of situations.

If thanks are going to be fully reliant on healers for their longevity, they need to be self sufficient in their utility. Right now, bears have neither.

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Remove lunar beam from the game it’s so awful that it doesn’t have a place in any aspect of the game and replace it with RotS

Maul cost no rage, damage reduced but reduces iron fur rage cost (yes this is an azerite trait)

Swipe generates rage even if it’s 1 rage per target hit that helps with uptime on iron fur

Thrash also slows by 20%, not an insane number but its there

Berserk is baseline…again

Replace earth warden with Adaptive fur

Revert Frenzied Regen or make it scale with mastery. It already has a decently long cooldown it should be worth using for that reason alone

The affinity tree is all well and good but it goes so much better when soloing content and the passives granted are ok but honestly this line of talents almost take away from bears more than it gives. You’ll almost never shift to cat/moonkin since you obviously need to tank and the resto passive heal isn’t breaking the bank

At the end of the day it doesn’t matter you can sift through the thousands of replies and suggestions people made. Even if they’re all well and good blizzards “internal testing” suggest otherwise therefore any idea people throw out just falls on deaf ears.

worldofwargraphs com/pve-stats/talents/druid/guardian

(add the . where com is)

1 Like
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I agree with some of these. I’m still pissed that they cut Berzerk because we got Rage, and then cut Rage. I said that exactly this would happen back at the beginning of Legion, too.

Lunar Beam needs it’s effects tripled, more or less, to even be on par with Bonestorm. It’s a decent trait to cut for a long CD.

Maul might be ok if the Azerite trait were baked in, but it can’t be free.

I’d prefer some focus on the Affinity talents. Every affinity needs to make at least one of the relevant spells useable in bear form, or they need to be completely reworked. They’re only useful in group content if you are in a fight where you are somehow not tanking for a while, which in practice means a tank switch fight in a raid. Or PvP, but bears are usually laughable in PvP. That’s a miserably narrow area to have an entire talent row in.