Squishiest class in the game (Give SV it’s own defensive aura or HP buff)
No reliable AoE stops (Remove movement requirement from binding shot or separate exp trap from intimidation and give it a disorient choice node)
No Battle rez (Give cunning pet battle rez and make dismiss pet 1s cast)
DPS doesn’t excel over comparable specs in any situation
Have to either have dps loss (MM) or loss of defensive CD to use lust
No unique group utility or buffs - e.g Priest: Fort/PI/MC/MD/VE/Life grip, Druid: MotW/NV/Vortex/beam/roar/innervate, Lock: curse/healthstone/gate/dispel, DK: grip/AMZ, Evoker: BotB/zephyr/Op Roar/Rescue, DH: darkness/5% magic, Monk: RoP/5% phys/4% movespeed, Mage: int/spellsteal, War: rally/shout, Shaman: WF/rush/link/stoneskin/incarn, Rogue: shroud/poisons, Pally: devo aura/BoP/Freedom/Sac/LoH, Hunter: ???SENTINEL OWL LOL??? (Give hunter a fort or MotW equivalent since priest/druid are so utility heavy already, zephyr equivalent, or party wide leech aura)
Additionally I think that survival desperately needs bomb to me made baseline and change that node in the spec tree to a utility to compensate for the fact that it is melee (more dangerous and overrepresented role) and does not have wailing arrow or the ability to freely and easily dodge everything as BM. Easiest solution would be to make a VE/NV equivalent since it would double as a defensive boost. Alternatively give bomb an atrophic poison or tongues-like effect
Not saying that all of these solutions should be implemented, but at least one of them should. Hunter needs SOMETHING. The only reason I would ever want to invite a pug hunter to a 20+ key over another class is if they have way better gear/score than everyone else, or I’m just being impatient.
I’m sure this has been discussed many times but I’m curious as to how people think about hunter’s place in M+. Please let me know what you think of any of the proposed solutions as well as any ideas you might have - or if I’m out to lunch and you think hunter is already the perfect class.
Also this is coming from the perspective of someone who has been playing mostly SV and sometimes MM in +20 keys, not trying to push high score or anything
got big dam because they remember about the big aimed shot that killed them in bg
with the survivability, you act as a foil for every member of the group
That being said, hunter can still perform fairly well, especially SV.
The first issue is player perception, it takes one streamer making a tier list with SV in C tier to make a lot of ppl banning the spec from LFG. (kinda like pvp player only wanting ppl with 4k5 xp to push to 1k8…)
It’s because the skill cap for SV is higher than MM/BM, the spec need more apm/experience to perform as much (but can still outperform them).
About bomb baseline, it’s like a lot of other classes, the basic spells are talented with the first 4-6 points, bomb isn’t really a problem. However raptor strike is, this skill has nothing to do as the first point in spec tree, it should be mongoose bite. (you could also plainly assume that SV use mongoose bite as melee ability and remove aspect of the eagle, freeing two points for the early row/base abilities)
On the utility side, yes hunter need something, i would love to see something like these :
making hunter auras (like precision was an aura in older xpac), in terms of theme/lore they could use rexxar’s beasts Misha(hp regen), Huffer(haste) and Leokk(ap/sp), the hunter could rotate this in combat for various situations
target debuff, hunting knowledge/experience helps you identified weak points and give other player a +2/3% crit chance on target (like old ret pal judgement of crusader) => imagine Rexxar jumping on a primal dragon, tearing out a scale to allow mates to inflict bonus damage (easy to trigger : after a number of crit from hunter, debuff for x sec (probably something “low” max 8-10s, if raid want more uptime, bring more hunters )
This just means they’re a ranged spec (unless they’re SV), nothing special about that
You can see from logs, MDI representation, and just experience running with all sorts of classes in higher M+ keys that none of the hunter specs are some secret “big dam” spec. They are just average in most dps situations. This is a tuning thing though and not fundamental so it’s not as important except that it could have been a saving grace for the class if it WAS an outlier in dps… but it’s not.
I don’t understand, are you trying to say that hunter has great survivability and is a foil to the other squishy members of the group? This is clearly not the case as hunter is the squishiest class in the game in M+ if you have ever had one in your group for a high key or played one. Or are you saying that hunter is so lacking in survivability that they act as a foil to the rest of the group who are very tanky and they should bring a hunter to look better next to them dying? huh?
A great player will outperform a bad player on almost any class/spec. Of course some who play SV will perform better than a DH with the same gear level, the point of this post is that said SV player will never bring as much to their group in M+ environment than they would if they were playing any other dps class with equivalent gear and practice.
My point about changing bomb to baseline is about freeing up a node in the tree that would allow blizz to put in a spec specific utility talent in an area that would not conflict with substantial dps options. See the upper section of the shadow priest tree for an example of this where they have both utility and defensive options.
I like your ideas for hunter auras, an aura equivalent to battle shout or a mystic touch clone debuff would be good
You should go tell all of those hunters sitting above 3k io that they shouldn’t be there because their class isn’t good enough. The hunter forums never fail to deliver.
Because its a fun class with diversity of being ranged or melee. Has nice abilities both ranged and melee, has many options companions wise.
But if you are referring because some meta slave , try hard, or simply a balloon streamer created a tier list for his sheep’s that follow him and they can’t see past that tier list , then I don’t know why you shouldn’t bring a hunter to a key. Look at your favorite streamer balloon video, he will guide you
Thanks for not bothering to read my post. Any class or spec can make it to 3k, great players would not even consider 3k a high io. Hunters with high io have that io because they are great players, not because of their class.
The point of this post is not “can a hunter possibly time some +22 keys to get 3k rating??” obviously they can. The point of this post is to pose the question of why when listing for a pug m+ group would anyone decide to bring a hunter when other dps options are available (besides knowing that the hunter is being piloted by a better player).
I like playing my hunter, I know it is a fun class that is capable of doing all forms of content. I think that they need changes because of what I have explained in my initial post.
I don’t think that people responding essentially “bring my hunter because I’m not a meta slave stream watching nerd loser” are getting any invites to groups because the community loves seeing more diverse colors in their party frames.
This is not a personal attack on people that play hunter in M+ (I am one of them…). I want to know if people feel similarly to me in that hunter is lacking compared to essentially every other dps class in the ways I’ve described and how those things should be fixed.
I said at or above, learn to read. The highest rated dps is 3516, the highest hunter is 3407. Hunters are fine… your entire post is a whine just looking for other people to agree with you. News flash, everything you wrote has already been discussed ad nauseam, you aren’t adding anything new.
Ok you’re clearly just a forum troll who spends too much time here, I guess you’ve already seen it all here so no reason to post any more if you have nothing smart or relevant to say. Done replying to you
Tranq shot, lust, full ranged movement as BM, binding shot, explosive trap if needed, stun, tar trap, frost trap, turtle with 70% damage reduction, camouflage, misdirect, interrupt. Personally I think dps warriors could use more utility.
Because they have friends and have built relationships with other players? Hunters are fine in M+. Could we use some beefing up in the survivability department? Yes. Is that preventing anyone other than terrible players from competing in any content the game has to offer? Absolutely not. Post on your main.
I am just on low keys and doing 100% PuGs. The best reason why I feel I am the best candidate from the key level I am applying for, is becoz compared to scrubs, I am 100% better than them. If you are getting 50%, scrubs on a PuG, picking me would be a big advantage.
I could be a squishie but there are like 4+ buttons you could click to save you allowing Healer ample time to act. If you are a noob and you died with those 4 buttons still up, no wonder you suck. To me, dying is unacceptable when any of those life-saving buttons are up. I would survive just like how high M score people survive. But I wont whine becoz if I still die after using 4 lifes saving buttons, it’s a Healer’s issue. No matter life saving button you have, but if you have an incompetent healer, you would die.
My unique ability is more of Wailing Arrow (mass interrupt). If the tank could bring all the casters together like the 4x 4-leg casters on the Final Boss of Nokhud Offensive, I could greatly delay all of them with one Wailing Arrow shot. I have saved many weak PuGs who dont interrupt on the first stage of Nokhud Offensive.
BTW, 4% movespeed, I have it too. You can enchant your stuffs with such stats than to use lifesteal. And I have Lust. If it’s Single Target DPS, it’s not as much of a DPS loss. Lusting on AoE trash is a big DPS loss and you think I would lust on AoE trash? Never.
I dont care about Survival… to me I agree they suck. The specs is wrong since it started. My MM is not a competition with them on Group Finder. They are against DK’s, Rogues, Monks, Warriors, etc. Good luck with them.
My competition is more of against Mages and Warlocks and I am pretty much confident to have the group choose me over them who usually dont interrupt.
Does my DPS not comparable to them? Ask my Raz bow.
I bring good ranged dmg and bloodlust. I have no trouble getting invited to keys. I don’t magically take more damage than anybody else. I use exhilaration a lot. I even have a full immunity at my disposal. I can trap anything that’s not immune to CC. I have a 5 second stun. I have a magic/enrage dispel on a 10 sec cd. I can fool mobs into thinking I’m dead.
You are the type of player that makes this game miserable to play, because you value theoretical benefits over actual player skill. There are reasonable discussions about what buffs hunters need in M+, but your attitude that hunters are essentially a wasted slot is ridiculous and undermines any valid points you may have.
Also 3k IO is not a high score? Oh look, it’s another smack talker posting on an alt, lol.
So you are saying that MM and BM hunters are not in the top five M+ DPS specs in the game.
OK.
So aren’t, what, about 23 other specs?
We cannot all be in the top five specs. So someone has to be not. That doesn’t mean we suck, it means you’re contributing to the community perception that if you’re not meta you’re trash.
Clearly its not simply just about dps, look at the class from a holistic point of view and you will see that is in desperate need of a rework coupled with aggressive tuning.
I didn’t say it was about DPS. I’ll change my terminology to clarify.
Re work? No. Just no. Tweaks? Sure. More survivability. Some way to not be completely without AOE when specced ST.
Reworked? Don’t talk crazy.
The point of my comment was that there is this pervasive perception that Hunters are trash and that seems to be based on the standard that we are not among the five or so best Damage Dealer specs to bring to a Mythic Plus. And that is an unreasonable standard.
Unless you’re one of those top five or so specs (in terms of utility, survivability, and damage), there will always be better options for Damage Dealers. Does that mean we need a “rework” or we are undesirable overall or we we are not “viable” (whatever that means)? Heck no. It means we are not among the top Damage Dealer specs. Just like another twenty or so specs.
And I bet you’ll find their subforums full of calls for them to be buffed because there are better Damage Dealer specs that outshine them in damage output or utility or survivability. That they’re unviable or undesirable.
The problem is that the standard is unreasonable. Not every spec can be in that prime desirable region. Some will inevitably not be. That’s not just the nature of wow that’s the nature of reality. Not everyone can be the best. Stop trying to say we are special and should be. Enjoy the ride.
The game is supposed to be fun. If you can’t have fun without playing a gifted class, then you might consider a different type of game to maximize your happiness. Because MMOs may not be a good fit.
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