5 people are running a dungeon. 2 are friends.
An item drops that 3 of them could use, but only 2 need.
The 3 roll need:
Player 1 (needs): -72
Player 2(needs): -65
Player 3(friend of player 2, doesn't need item): -94
The chat log shows player 3 won the item. Player 3 then trades said item to his friend, which is not reflected in the chat log. Player 1, not taking the time to rigidly inspect player 3 to make sure he didn't need the item, thinks "damn, I didn't win".
Player 1 is effectively "ninjad" without ever realizing it. It wasn't a fair roll-off to begin with.
This will be a fairly common occurrence if BoP trading is allowed.
Remember, in vanilla anyone could roll on anything, even if they couldn't equip it. And often, other armor types were still upgrades. A holy paladin will be wearing mostly cloth and leather gear.
This really needs to be considered by the devs.
11/04/2018 06:35 PMPosted by Kooka5 people are running a dungeon. 2 are friends.
An item drops that 3 of them could use, but only 2 need.
The 3 roll need:
Player 1 (needs): -72
Player 2(needs): -65
Player 3(friend of player 2, doesn't need item): -94
The chat log shows player 3 won the item. Player 3 then trades said item to his friend, which is not reflected in the chat log. Player 1, not taking the time to rigidly inspect player 3 to make sure he didn't need the item, thinks "damn, I didn't win".
Player 1 is effectively "ninjad" without ever realizing it. It wasn't a fair roll-off to begin with.
This will be a fairly common occurrence if BoP trading is allowed.
Remember, in vanilla anyone could roll on anything, even if they couldn't equip it. And often, other armor types were still upgrades. A holy paladin will be wearing mostly cloth and leather gear.
This really needs to be considered by the devs.
It has been considered but they're looking at the amount of Customer service time they're going to save.
My suggestion is get into a guild, run with them and avoid pugging wherever possible.
Yep, it's a bigger issue then people realize as everyone's so focused on sharding. I think it's an easy decision to just not have it in Classic, keep it simple and how it was in vanilla.
11/04/2018 06:39 PMPosted by Thundathys
It has been considered but they're looking at the amount of Customer service time they're going to save.
My suggestion is get into a guild, run with them and avoid pugging wherever possible.
My suggestion is to not allow BoP trading under any circumstances -so if people open tickets to trade items, ignore them.
Blizz doesnt have to waste extra money on customer service, and the integrity of loot distribution is held.
11/04/2018 06:40 PMPosted by Kooka11/04/2018 06:39 PMPosted by Thundathys
It has been considered but they're looking at the amount of Customer service time they're going to save.
My suggestion is get into a guild, run with them and avoid pugging wherever possible.
My suggestion is to not allow BoP trading under any circumstances -so if people open tickets to trade items, ignore them.
Blizz doesnt have to waste extra money on customer service, and the integrity of loot distribution is held.
The thing is they still probably have to read a certain amount of it. Imagine a guild running onyxia and all the loot gets ninjaed. 39 reports. Lets say 30 seconds to read and dismiss each one. That gm wastes 20 minutes to piss off 39 customers. Doesnt seem like good business behavior. I get why they did it.
11/04/2018 06:47 PMPosted by Valhalian
The thing is they still probably have to read a certain amount of it. Imagine a guild running onyxia and all the loot gets ninjaed. 39 reports. Lets say 30 seconds to read and dismiss each one. That gm wastes 20 minutes to piss off 39 customers. Doesnt seem like good business behavior. I get why they did it.
At what cost to the gameplay experience though?
If trade-able BoPs are there at launch, I will feel compelled to check the gear of every person who rolls on an item against me to make sure they actually equip it. There will have to be house rules on servers to force people to equip BOPS!
It's a fairly significant deviation from classic.
It will be extra-exhausting to run pugs, and change the nature of what it means to run one.
11/04/2018 06:50 PMPosted by Kooka11/04/2018 06:47 PMPosted by Valhalian
The thing is they still probably have to read a certain amount of it. Imagine a guild running onyxia and all the loot gets ninjaed. 39 reports. Lets say 30 seconds to read and dismiss each one. That gm wastes 20 minutes to piss off 39 customers. Doesnt seem like good business behavior. I get why they did it.
At what cost to the gameplay experience though?
If trade-able BoPs are there at launch, I will feel compelled to check the gear of every person who rolls on an item against me to make sure they actually equip it. There will have to be house rules on servers to force people to equip BOPS!
It's a fairly significant deviation from classic.
It will be extra-exhausting to run pugs, and change the nature of what it means to run one.
I agree that its a lose lose situation. Im also saying i understand the situation blizzard is in and the labor it takes for them to deal with this. I personally would rather not have it in the game because i personally would never use it.
INB4 "Hur well in vanilla u just ninja and get a GM to trade teh item 2 ur frend"
Why should ninjas have to open a GM ticket and wait 4 days to give the item to their friend? Lets put a 2 hour window on the item and let them skip the GM process all together.
Why should ninjas have to open a GM ticket and wait 4 days to give the item to their friend? Lets put a 2 hour window on the item and let them skip the GM process all together.
Avoiding pugs is a terrible "solution". I don't want to be discouraged from running with people beyond my guild. Meeting new people and forging new friendships should be encouraged.11/04/2018 06:39 PMPosted by ThundathysIt has been considered but they're looking at the amount of Customer service time they're going to save.
My suggestion is get into a guild, run with them and avoid pugging wherever possible.
if they enable loot restrictions on classes/personal loot and sharding im not buying and a few friends aswell id imagine. loot trading is scummy of course, how could they overlook this man...
but we have time to scream and holler at them, atleast i think we do ;)
but we have time to scream and holler at them, atleast i think we do ;)
I don't even see why not having dungeon loot trading would cause customer support workload issues.
Player: Hi someone ninja looted my [Scarlet Thong of The Dreamer] and I want it
GM: Sorry, ninja looting is a community issue. We do not intervene in such matters.
Done. It's literally that easy.
You can even train the support system to recognize words like "ninja looted", or "dungeon" plus "stolen", and have it just send a canned response notifying the player that Blizzard Staff do not intervene in such matters.
Player: Hi someone ninja looted my [Scarlet Thong of The Dreamer] and I want it
GM: Sorry, ninja looting is a community issue. We do not intervene in such matters.
Done. It's literally that easy.
You can even train the support system to recognize words like "ninja looted", or "dungeon" plus "stolen", and have it just send a canned response notifying the player that Blizzard Staff do not intervene in such matters.
11/04/2018 07:15 PMPosted by TanzI don't even see why not having dungeon loot trading would cause customer support workload issues.
Player: Hi someone ninja looted my [Scarlet Thong of The Dreamer] and I want it
GM: Sorry, ninja looting is a community issue. We do not intervene in such matters.
Done. It's literally that easy.
You can even train the support system to recognize words like "ninja looted", or "dungeon" plus "stolen", and have it just send a canned response notifying the player that Blizzard Staff do not intervene in such matters.
THANK YOU.
11/04/2018 06:35 PMPosted by Kooka5 people are running a dungeon. 2 are friends.
An item drops that 3 of them could use, but only 2 need.
The 3 roll need:
Player 1 (needs): -72
Player 2(needs): -65
Player 3(friend of player 2, doesn't need item): -94
The chat log shows player 3 won the item. Player 3 then trades said item to his friend, which is not reflected in the chat log. Player 1, not taking the time to rigidly inspect player 3 to make sure he didn't need the item, thinks "damn, I didn't win".
Player 1 is effectively "ninjad" without ever realizing it. It wasn't a fair roll-off to begin with.
And yet it was a fair roll-off. It doesn't matter if Player 3 chose to DE the item, vendor the item, or trade the item to another player. Player 3 got the highest roll. Player 3 won the item fair and square.
That has been Blizzard's attitude for as long as World of Warcraft has been around. No amount of babbies howling and screaming is going to change Blizzard's view - that five players (in the example) legitimately on the loot list with the opportunity to win, where one player got the highest roll and won, is not ninja looting.
---
EDIT: Oh, and in case it hasn't been pointed out yet, the fact only three of them could use it doesn't even limit the roll to those three. All five players are perfectly capable of rolling need, and any of those five could win the roll.
11/04/2018 06:39 PMPosted by Thundathys11/04/2018 06:35 PMPosted by Kooka5 people are running a dungeon. 2 are friends.
An item drops that 3 of them could use, but only 2 need.
The 3 roll need:
Player 1 (needs): -72
Player 2(needs): -65
Player 3(friend of player 2, doesn't need item): -94
The chat log shows player 3 won the item. Player 3 then trades said item to his friend, which is not reflected in the chat log. Player 1, not taking the time to rigidly inspect player 3 to make sure he didn't need the item, thinks "damn, I didn't win".
Player 1 is effectively "ninjad" without ever realizing it. It wasn't a fair roll-off to begin with.
[/quote]
My suggestion is get into a guild, run with them and avoid pugging wherever possible.
That is a problem in and of itself. Classic is supposed to encourage player interaction, not discourage it.
Ninja looting. I hope blizzard removes loot trading in bfa as well since they've pushed personal loot for everyone.
LOOT TRADING IS BAD AND ALWAYS BAD.
LOOT TRADING IS BAD AND ALWAYS BAD.
11/04/2018 07:07 PMPosted by SwitzyAvoiding pugs is a terrible "solution". I don't want to be discouraged from running with people beyond my guild. Meeting new people and forging new friendships should be encouraged.
Yes, telling people to "avoid pugs" is what we hear all the time in tank threads on retail. One of the reasons we want Classic back is specifically to get away from that kind of nonsense.
We want our server to be a place where people know each other's name, and pugging isn't a cesspool. Also, ninjas tend to get blacklisted. Not nowadays though because with CRZ and sharding everyone's anonymous.
People need to remember that this will not be the case in Classic (if they don't screw it up). People know who you are in Classic, and if you're a ninja, you brought it on yourself.
11/04/2018 06:35 PMPosted by Kooka5 people are running a dungeon. 2 are friends.
An item drops that 3 of them could use, but only 2 need.
The 3 roll need:
Player 1 (needs): -72
Player 2(needs): -65
Player 3(friend of player 2, doesn't need item): -94
The chat log shows player 3 won the item. Player 3 then trades said item to his friend, which is not reflected in the chat log. Player 1, not taking the time to rigidly inspect player 3 to make sure he didn't need the item, thinks "damn, I didn't win".
Player 1 is effectively "ninjad" without ever realizing it. It wasn't a fair roll-off to begin with.
This will be a fairly common occurrence if BoP trading is allowed.
Remember, in vanilla anyone could roll on anything, even if they couldn't equip it. And often, other armor types were still upgrades. A holy paladin will be wearing mostly cloth and leather gear.
This really needs to be considered by the devs.
Your logic is based on a flawed thought that this didn't happen in Vanilla. Jokes on you it did, all the !@#$ing time. The only thing this does is makes it so actual accidental situations get resolved instantly. People already abused the GM Tickets in Vanilla to ninja %^-* for their friends, this is why we had blacklists on many of the server forums listing ninjas so that they wouldn't get groups.
This was a function added by the dev team to lessen the GM Tickets and wait times for GM Ticket resolutions. It is a QoL Change that actually benefits the game and really the only people opposed to this are people who think they can get away with ninja looting if it doesn't exist. Which good luck with that, the vanilla players were not and probably still aren't opposed to making blacklists for ninjas.
11/04/2018 06:35 PMPosted by Kooka
This will be a fairly common occurrence if BoP trading is allowed.
[/quote]
You must have unmatched powers of precognition.
11/04/2018 10:45 PMPosted by IgPeople already abused the GM Tickets in Vanilla to ninja %^-* for their friends, this is why we had blacklists on many of the server forums listing ninjas so that they wouldn't get groups.
I would think that's justice being served. Having to wait days to get loot transferred and then risking getting blacklisted (a big deal for pugs) just isn't worth it.
11/04/2018 10:50 PMPosted by Ekhana11/04/2018 10:45 PMPosted by IgPeople already abused the GM Tickets in Vanilla to ninja %^-* for their friends, this is why we had blacklists on many of the server forums listing ninjas so that they wouldn't get groups.
I would think that's justice being served. Having to wait days to get loot transferred and then risking getting blacklisted (a big deal for pugs) just isn't worth it.
Oh I plan to have a blacklist and post it just like I did in Vanilla. I don't tolerate Ninja looting, and the loot trading system actually makes it even easier to spot ninjas because the rolls are posted and if they don't hand over the item immediately that is enough to add them to the list. The GM Ticket system meant you had to wait a few days before knowing for sure which made it easier for people to get away with it.