At higher key levels these dungeons demand perfection the timers leave very little room for error compared to other dungeons for example. If you wipe twice on any of the other dungeons you can still time them (correct me if im wrong) but on these dungeons if you wipe once the key is dead. Why? Its because of the long runback combined with the unforgiving timers. I dont know about you but that makes these dungeons incredibly nerve wracking to me every second is vital and if you wipe on any of the bosses thats it. What do yall think if you could extend the timer what would you extend it to? Or maybe you would wanna shorten it :P.
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the frog room in AV on sanguine is the biggest waste of time in the world
i’m sure that’ll be fun on bolstering 
i’d be very surprised if they added time to the clock…i don’t think they’ve ever done it, as they will likely tune the dungeon in other ways if need be (like lowering hp % of mobs or bosses)
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The timers are tight, I won’t argue that point. However, I have timed HoA with 2 full wipes and 21 deaths overall. The difference from HoV and AV from the rest is the pacing required. The group needs to be constantly moving and pulls need to be consistent double or triple pulls. It is very similar to the pace required for Hall of Atonement last expansion and even Theater of Pain.
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Pacing is something i forgot to mention in my post but yes having to constantly be moving giga pulling all the packs is not how the dungeon should be intended to be done its part of the reason alot of players talk about a timer extension so that theres less pressure to be forced to pull like that idk just my opinion.
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the circular traps on the floor do friendly fire to mobs in there right? been too scared to try it myself in m+ 
I did a +20 AV and they nerfed the crap out of the 3rd boss. His frost bombs only hit the group for 150k and you have enough time to just run out of the pools with no extra damage. The HPS requirements basically dropped by 50%. He’s a poorly design boss you basically just walk around a ring for 3 minutes.
The nerf to the trash + boss hp was enough to let our super scuffed 12 death run actually be timeable with 30s left.
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Its doable, but its definitely not in line with the other dungeons. The HP nerfs were good but I think there is just too much trash and the dungeon is too long.
If you’re doing all the mechanics correctly and missing the timer then you just need bigger gear. Run 1 or 2 lower until you get bigger.
Stop increasing timers. HoV is already 40 mins long.
Reduce trash, or mob hp, or something else.
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Nerf the rune damage, its borderline aburd. That 2nd rune phase is absolutely insane. In a high key u get brought down to 10% hp need to brought up somehow, then you have approximately 3 seconds to get to a rune before dying immediately. Better have each of those spots memorized or you are completely screwed. Its just too much damage, you don’t even have time to think before your dead. Literally the pug destroyer for my groups bc people have to take care of themselves, cause there is nothing a healer can do.
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They should purge all the RP from HoV, it’s depressing sitting there watching your timer tick down 
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I’m honestly more concerned about Hyrja and Fenryr for HoV than Odyn. At least his stuff is predictable, and you can pre-DR the rune.
Hyrja and Fenryr just suck. I’ve had my tank get one-shot by her beam before, and Fenryr can randomly gib people with this stack mechanic.
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Odyn goes from reasonable / challenge to absolute living hell once you start seeing past the 2nd rune in high keys. 3 spears at a time is crazy.
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This is largely a tank/group positioning error. The things that spawn orbs should be placed/dropped on the outside of the big ring and when it’s time to do the rune phase everyone should be in the center of the circle to minimize run time.
Hyrja is the most overtuned boss atm. She does 100-120k every 1.5s for 9s to each person in the group and then zaps somebody for 150k immediately after. Not only is the healer supposed to heal the group through that, they have to top off the tank so they don’t get on shot by shield of light. The only way to really cheese this fight is having to keep her in the light phase for 2 phases each time.
Fenrir’s dot can stack too high easily if your group isn’t stacking classes or races that can stop him from jumping. 3 stacks is about 100k+ a tick.
Odyn start’s slamming the group for 250-300k every 8s when he starts triple spearing after 2nd intermission.
Overall the damage in this place sets the bosses apart from all the rest.
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Only if a scribe grabs the scroll and converts them, otherwise they only work on players. We’ve been experimenting with this all season and it’s of limited use. The first scroll doesn’t really present much opportunity as the packs there have a fairly punishing cleave so moving them to the traps is a bit dangerous. My tank just doesn’t like to do it. The second one has a bit more value since it can prevent those frogs from jumping around all over the place for a bit, and one scroll can cover three traps so you can use them. If you pull the two charge dudes in as well, it can mitigate the charges too.
Still, it’s not that big an impact. All it really does is prevent damage on the tank since everything else is avoidable. I suppose you could limit some movement on the first scroll since you won’t have as many ground swirlies so maybe it depends on the group, but meh. For the frog packs, you can both stack in melee to keep them clumped. You can also LOS the charges to prevent them from happening and increase clump up-time.
It’s tough to discern the value… after however many times we use these, I use the first scroll as an “in case of emergency” type of thing so it’s there and ready if needed, but otherwise not. We seem to like the second scroll in the frog room, though not this week since sanguine can troll you sometimes.
Oh, I forgot to mention, you can only have the scroll for two minutes. So you have to use it within 2-3 packs of picking it up, depending on how speedy your group is.
HoV needs work, badly. It’s not even doable in high keys on a week like this. I thought we were past “dead keys,” but no. You need to pull aggressively to make the timer, but explosive prevents that. Then Fenryr has no spell queueing, so crappy rng wipes you, and Odyn just deletes you in the rune phase. Not to mention losing at least a full minute to RP.
What do you consider high keys?
You can still do double pulls even with explosive. You can’t do much more than that anyway because of the Thundercallers and Mystics.
Just got out of a 22 HoV, over time by 38 seconds. We coulda timed it had we been just a little bit cleaner. However…
Fenryr we only survived because we had the leap go on 2 people who could feign / meld it, meaning our healer could actually keep us alive through the group soaks. Still killed it with nobody having anything else left in the tank. If the first target of leap had been anyone else the key was over.
Odyn’s damage after the first damage buff phase ends ramps up to insanity.
We were all doing ~90k overall, which for a dungeon with 5 single target bosses on Tyrannical is a lot.
Having now seen every boss on 22 tyrannical, nothing comes close to the damage / healing requirements of HoV.
They’re long dungeons as it is, I’d rather they keep the timer and get HP nerfs all around to make it quicker