I understand everyone wants good gear, but I’ve had two runs fail tonight, one because the healer could not handle the final fight, and one because the dps could not handle the first fight. But in both cases it was clear people were completely inexperienced in the dungeon. In the case of the time walking dungeons, they exist at very low level, and the new dungeons have a very gentle graduated difficulty system. When you are wearing greens and crafted blues, why aren’t you just running ilvl appropriate content?
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Because the game lets me.
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Why people use M+ to learn is because you almost have to.
stuff in N/H dies too quickly, and has 0 chance of killing people.
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That’s definitely the kinder opinion to have of people. However I would say it’s just because a lot of people like to jump the queue, and assume more capable people will just carry them.
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TBH, I think both are true.
Both that people just expect to be carried, and that the queue/intro content is terrible at teaching because the punishment for failure is within a rounding error of 0
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Exactly. and some time people are too experienced and will end up hiding the mechanics by maintaining good CC and interrupts on low difficulties like M0.
only way to find out is over pulling and finding out what everything does by letting it happen. And even then it was relatively hard to die short of finding chain fear mobs
and being “allowed” to upgrade a key relatively fast has resulted in me people having +10s to finish their testing of mechanics. 
Granted. the over all tuning of dungeons seems lower than in pervious starts of an expansion. the tool kits of players is a lot more complete out of the gate and so a number of things are brute force able with better play.
better play but low gear isn’t much different than having good gear at a much higher key level. 
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Just seems like the lead choose very poorly.
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Yeah, the dungeon difficulty curve is all over the place. I think this is an inevitable result of exponential scaling, that stuff doesn’t matter until it very much does.
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I’m…not?
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Mythic cannot be queued. If these people are taken, its poor group making on the leader’s part.
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Why are you inviting people in green and blue gear to your groups?
Oh, they aren’t your groups? Well, there’s your solution.
Also, TW/norm/heroic does not teach you mechanics. Many bosses die before their mechanics even happen. Last nignt even in a +2 RLP, the first boss never even did the “vacuum” mechanic bacuase we pushed the whelp phases before it happened.
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Because content outside of high-keys either dies so quickly or does so little you rarely need to learn the mechanics.
It wasn’t till I was trying Azure Vaults on 18 did I realize that his consuming smash does more damage if there’s trees up. I’ve done it several times on decently high levels and have definitely had it go off with trees still up but never noticed bcuz I was just able to heal through it.
You’re naive if you think everyone is sitting there reading encounters in dungeon journals. I’d go on a limb and say vast majority don’t until they wipe to it.
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I have no idea why people do this. Gear =/= skill. My gear is like 10x higher level than my skill level and I know it. People on forums try to shame me for being at this key level with 395 ilvl, but uhh? I still don’t know all the dispells, I still fail mechs, I still don’t know exactly when it was my bad or billy’s bad.
I’m comfortable where I am, don’t need to progress just because my ilvl is high. Sometimes it’s more mature and intelligent to stay where you are. Many WoW players do not possess this level of chill. Almost anyone can get my ilvl through world quests alone. ilvl is for the dogs.
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You can’t learn mechanics if you don’t try and actually experience them.
Don’t join random PuGs if you want experienced people every run.
As others have said, start your own groups and set your own requirements.
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All mechs are introduced at +10 keys, and these people can’t even do the normal affixes right. Why are they progged to seasonal affix level keys if they still struggle with the base mechanics on M0? Don’t join keys if you don’t want me to ditch you when you prove you aren’t ready. You people waste everyone’s time and I have no problem with abandoning bads.
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Since Normal and Heroic don’t really teach anything about the mob mechanics in general, and there’s not a lot of people making resources on the mobs as indepth as the bosses, players don’t usually know until it happens to them.
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That’s not the game’s fault. The group lead has every power to tell what dungeons a player has and hasn’t completed and what gear they have.
Should they queue? Debatable, but you’re the gatekeeper. Sometimes you just have to tell a person ‘no’.
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Lol, was in a +17 Ruby last night where a hunter, ofc, ran through the dragon eggs after the entire room was already cleared out on our way to the first boss. The same hunter also died to the first set of swirlies from that first boss too. I had to baby sit him the entire run with Blessing of Sacrifice and Spellwarding. People clearly get carried, unintentionally, until they get to key levels where they can’t brute force it anymore and it really shows.
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Me and my friend have been learning in 8-10 keys. Why? Those are our keys and if we don’t time them oh well we’re learning.
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